[amyjared]

I don't know about most of you, but I've been playing guitar for awhile and there are some Dead songs that have always given me trouble and I'm not always sure why. I don't mean ones that have odd chords to learn or difficult jams. Does anyone else have this problem? The one's I can't seem to get into my head are:

Dire Wolf
Ship of Fools

I can play complicated stuff like Slipknot St. Stephens or jam on Scarlet/Fire but when it comes to the chord progression or the timing or something, it throws me enough that I just kind of gave up and haven't mastered these tunes. Anyone else have this problem?

[tigerstrat]

I'm actually totally addicted to Dire Wolf (in C, not A), and it's often the first tune that presents itself to me, especially when picking up my acoustic.

SOF always seems just off my radar... that one is due for coverage.

[Billbbill]

I only have problems with the leads on these two.

Dire wolf - I just have to stay on top of the chord changes in my mind, then my solo is more coherent. If I flub on a change, I can work my way through it, even to the point where it may not even be noticed, but I'll be pissed.

Ship - A lot of changes in this one and problems are the same as above. Even more so on this one because one could get through this lead by just playing Bbmaj pentatonic (not sure if it's that key, but those notes anyway) but it will sound somewhat sterile without noting the chord changes within the lead by adding notes or building to notes that signify a chord (key?) change.


I'm not sure about your problem. Have you played them enough? I'm betting you have.

Sometimes a song that goes back and forth between two chords (Dire Wolf) with slightly different timing between changes to adjacent chords can be confusing.

Ship is just a lot of chords, but also with some chords repeating in different portions, even small multiple chord segments repeating and then having different adjacent chords. This also can be confusing.

I don't like to resort to this since I always want to be able to play any chord, anytime, anywhere, but if you think the aforementioned may be a problem for you, you can reserve a particular chord form/position for different segments in a song.

Even now, after 20 plus years of playing I find myself relating to a particular chord form on the neck, instead of noting the chord itself and then picking a form on the neck. I do this infrequently now, but it took a while to change my head. In a weird way I think doing the opposite may help where you may be having trouble with repetitive chords in diverse progressions.

Of course if this is not related to your problem, in the imortal words of Rosanne Rosanna Danna - Never Mind.

[Billbbill]

This was buggin me. Correction, I think the Gilda Radner character from snl I was going for was the old bitty, Emily Litella (?), but this too may be wrong.

[jck_strw]

This was buggin me. Correction, I think the Gilda Radner character from snl I was going for was the old bitty, Emily Litella (?), but this too may be wrong.

Yup, it was Emily Litella that had the "Never mind" catch phrase.

Bitch!

[amyjared]

Thanks for the responses. Yeah, I've tried these songs and I just can't seem to get the chord changes in my head enough to play them without resorting to a sheet of paper in front of me. I've only heard the songs about a million times, but something doesn't click. I have similar problems (to a lesser degree) with Box, Eyes and Playin. I think it's that the chords don't follow the usual progression that I can follow? I always like what Woody Guthrie said: "If you're playing more than three chords, you're just showing off"

[Billbbill]

Yea, that's a great line from Woody.

I also have problems with Box, but I haven't concentrated on that one as much as others. I would definitely have to look at that one to play it or sit down with it until I drill it into my brain. Too many similar progression lines.

This makes me think of a somewhat humorous phenomenom in my household. When I really get into the nooks and cranies of a song and get it down well, which, depending on the song could take from a day to a week, my wife begins to hate the song in question with a curious passion.

I suppose it's somewhat like not being able to even look at food after you've just finished stuffing your face.

[tigerstrat]

This is gonna sound heretical to some, but I gotta say, that Woody quote actually makes him seem like he is speaking to perhaps a jazz or classical aficianado, and getting a bit defensive about the simplicity of the folk music form, and showing some closed-mindedness.

Box is well worth the time spent getting it down. What a beautiful statement. Took years for the band to get off their butts and cover that one. Maybe it had to do with the bassist singing.

[Billbbill]

Who knows tigerstrat. You may very well be right. There could be a snobby/defensive aspect to that quote. I don't know enough about Woody to be sure.

I suppose, from my own biased perspective, I sort of feel that one can get pretty complicated and involved within a three chord (or one chord for that matter!) jam. Even if he didn't mean it this way. Then of course, you always have the beauty of simplicity. Maybe part of Woody's appeal was the simplicity of his music. Of course that would not excuse a closed-minded attitude toward other forms.

As soon as you start playin an instrument, there are many layers to peel back. It all depends on how deep you go.

[amyjared]

Woody was just trying to be glib, like his songs. He respected people who could play well but realized you could write amazing songs with just three chords and the truth. I saw Pete Seeger one time and he said, while tuning the guitar, "You never see Segovia or Django tune up before they start to play. You always see folk singers tuning. You know why? Because we care!" He was kidding around, and it was funny.

[Billbbill]

That makes sense. I'd rather not think the worst of people anyhow.

[tigerstrat]

Not thinking the worst necessarily, but just kinda that the guy was human like the rest of us... and also wildly speculating on context. And I agree to the point that you don't need complexity to make a compelling musical expression- I'll bliss out for 15 minutes to Franklin's or NFA like the next guy, but I'm also a sucker for sophisticated compositions like Stella By Starlight or Stella Blue or what have you.

[sarraqum]

Different compositions call for different approaches. As you said, some beautiful songs can be written using only three basic chords. Then again other songs would require more than three chords and in the end would sound great because of that. It all depends. Then again, some people just can't do simple...

[pharewellphish]

yea, i hate it when people just mindlessly repeat complicated tabs theyve learned but they dont understand, and then when u just wanna do a simple 3 chord progression jam with them they have non clue what to do... and people still think theyre good guitar players, i see a lot of that