[playingdead]

Having an interesting conversation with someone on a recording forum about mixing; he told me that Billy and Mickey used to tune their kick drums to different frequencies (low E and C) to help differentiate them in the mix.

He also noted that Healy sometimes would mix the band in stereo opposite from the stage image, so the keys would come from the left instead of the right, and the drummers were reversed -- as if the perspective on the board was from the stage, looking toward the audience instead of vice versa. I've noticed that on some of the soundboards and wondered if the inputs were just reversed on the recordings along the line somewhere, but maybe not.

Right now I'm trying to get a better bass sound, with so-so results. It's being suggested to high pass the bass around 60hz to remove some mud, and use more compression on it to get it "breathing" ... no idea what sort of compression settings are appropriate for the mix, though.

Last Saturday's show: http://www.archive.org/details/pd2009-08-01.chatham.sbd

[jester536]

Wow...I think it sounds great. I thought the bass at the beginning of Dancin' sounded crisp and clean. Have your drummers gone for the idea of altering the tuning of their kick drums? So is this recorded right off the board or do you use a different approach?
Thanks.

[bcresci]

This isn't related to the mix, but a request. The upbeat '73 TLEO and '74 Loose Lucy are great versions of the those songs. I'd especially love to hear you guys do the '73 TLEO - nobody seems to play them that way.

[jjbankhead]

well i am a hack guitar player, it paralells my golf game, but the sound on this recording is awesome...

i know very little about rcording and nothing about mixing live shows, you guys sound tight as a group and the board mix is comparable to some of the dead boards i have...

man i am impressed.

i know you were looking for feed back form the gurus of the board, but i just wanted you to know from the untrained ear this is great.

i am curious how big of a venue you all were playing?

[playingdead]

Thanks, y'all ...

It was recorded at a private party on Chatham MA, outdoors, using a Presonus StudioLive 16-channel board.

We have done both those tunes in that 73-74 style, but not lately. Good idea.

[Chuckles]

Holy crap that sounds great, Vic! I mean, the playing is terrific, but the recording is just pristine.

Does the Capture s/w have post-rec eq for mixdown? I'd think you could fatten up the bass (which I thought sounded good, but did lack Phil's pop that is characteristic of so many GD SBs) there and save that setting to the recording scene, no? I don't know enough about recording compression to make any other suggestion... nor what Scott's onstage sound is like, so it's tough to say...

Who sang Next Time U C Me & Operator? Was that you? Dead-on Pig.

Also, was this done with the non-Tiger guitar or did you get it back. Great tone... I'm streaming the show as I type, and it's pretty rare for me to listen to something other than the original McCoy. Really enjoying it.

Between the AxeFX and the PreSonus, you're gonna be talking a lot of us here into spending $$ we just don't have...

[playingdead]

Maybe I should buy some stock in Presonus and Fractal Audio? LOL

Thanks, man ... Capture is really a very bare-bones application, it records the pre-fader feed off the board via Firewire, and it streams it back to the board again so you can remix it. However, you can also route the channels through Logic (or Cubase, etc.) using the board. It's not a true control surface, because it lacks motorized faders (can't have everything for $1650), but it will interface with all the DAW software out there.

But, just using Capture, you can run every channel through the Presonus' "Fat Channel", which gives you a high pass filter, gate, phase reversal, compressor, limiter, and 4-band EQ (parametric) as well as two effects (reverbs and delays) for each channel. Then you record a two-channel mix to master your recording. You can also uses the auxes, inserts and so forth for additional processing.

The Tiger is still with Gary Brawer, I am suffering with my crappy FrankenStrat with essentially no volume control and the DiMarzios/CB-2. I have a shot to buy a Scott Walker swamp ash lefty here in a week or two, though ... or I might have him build me one from scratch.

That's Mark, our keyboard player, he has it down, doesn't he? He sings Phil beautifully as well.

V

[Rusty the Scoob]

Is there such a thing as singing Phil beautifully?

[playingdead]

Do you think Phil's vocals on Box of Rain on American Beauty, or Unbroken Chain and Pride of Cucamonga on the Mars Hotel album, sound bad?

I think he had a great, rich singing voice with a great range until his throat problems ruined it post-74 or so.

[SarnoMusicSolutions]

Vic,

I pulled up the mix in the mastering suite. (Mastering is my other day job). It's really sounding good. But I would like to comment on a few things. The bass guitar could probably use a bit of hi-passing to shave off some of the bottom end sub fatness and string movement. Don't dump it, but maybe at 45Hz to 55Hz. What will happen is that this will allow for the bass to be mixed louder. It's a bit soft in the midrange. Also the bass guitar sounds compressed, and as I understand it, Phil and Healy would never do that. Maybe a peak limit to protect just the loudest bass transients, but mostly it could be very dynamic and punchy.

Kick drums are kind of dark, quiet and a bit sub-heavy. For a Dead sound, the beat should be very clear and snappy. Again, maybe some kick hi-passing at around 65Hz, or try even higher, and then turn the drum UP louder for more clarity and more dance beat punch. A leaner, louder kick.

Snares are a bit thin and wispy, could use more body and shell warmth.

Overheads (cymbals) are relatively too loud compared to snares and toms and kicks.

Now this is all just nitpicky engineering tweaks, I do it all the time for clients. But really the stuff is very impressive sounding.

That's quite a guitar rig/tone you got there!


Brad

http://www.bluejadeaudio.com

[playingdead]

Wow, thanks, Brad. Nothing like having professional ears on something!

There is no compression on the bass; it's off a direct box. I did also send it to an aux and run it through my GB Shuttle head (and back out through its direct out) to shape it a little bit, mostly reinforce the bottom and scoop the mids a little bit. That was mixed back in with the direct signal. It is a tube preamp, though, so maybe that's why it sounds compressed.

Have you heard of a tube direct box called the Reddi? I've heard it's a good way to get a nice, fat, deep bass tone direct to the board. It's pricey, though.

And thanks for the guitar tone compliment, that's straight AxeFX to the board, no separate effects, amp, speakers, reverb, nothing. I can't wait to get my good guitar back and hear it then.

[Rusty the Scoob]

Do you think Phil's vocals on Box of Rain on American Beauty, or Unbroken Chain and Pride of Cucamonga on the Mars Hotel album, sound bad?

I think he had a great, rich singing voice with a great range until his throat problems ruined it post-74 or so.

Heh... I do think Phil did pretty well in the studio, and I enjoy his singing most of the time... I always felt like his pitch was always good but his control and phrasing were somewhat lacking, even when he was the 3rd harmony prior to the Donna years. I guess it's like Dylan... some people hate his voice, some love it... nobody's in the middle.

Anyway, that's off the topic at hand, which is your recording... I just listened to a few tracks and man, it's unbelievable! It sounds like you used a full studio setup! And the playing as always is top notch.

[RiverRat]

I prefer the kicks to be hitting +3 to +6 db PFL... I'd high pass exactly as Brad describe... plus i'd scoop the kicks from 240 to 2400hz... keep most the lows and the highs on the kicks...

One thing I'd do differently is route the kicks and bass mono to a subgroup, put a compressor on that subgroup... this gives the bass a little more "pulse" since the kicks are so hot. the bass will the "follow" the kicks. I'll set the threshold at -10db, ratio to about 5:1, 50ms attack and a 1 to 2 second release. That's not a Healey thing... that's my personal taste... Dance tracks will sidechain the kick and trigger the bass compressor with the sidechain to get that pulsing bass sound... I just slop them all together and get pretty much the same effect, just not as dramatic a pulse... quick and dirty but effective!

I'd watch for really high transient peaks in the 100-1000hz range on the bass channel... an RTA can help here. I've found the meters on most boards do not give an accurate display of the peaks so you are left thinking that the overall level of the bass is lower than it really is. like Brad said, a limiter helps here.

[playingdead]

Thanks for the compliments.

Interesting thought, Ray. Be pretty interesting to hear a dance remix of a Scarlet Begonias from the Greek in 85 ... LOL