[loudnclear]

Hi all. Is it indeed the general consensus that Jerry never used a compressor in his rig? Thanks!

[TI4-1009]

I think the consensus is that compression is anti-Jerry.

Bobby, on the other hand....

[Jon S.]

The question is somewhat misleading. Jerry didn't use an effect compressor on stage. Jerry played at stage volumes where he didn't need one - he was getting it "naturally" from his power amps and speakers. There are also his studio recordings and how they were mixed. Thus I wouldn't characterize compression as anti-Jerry per se.

[hippieguy1954]

I would.

[Jon S.]

Many people, when they hear the word compression, think of things like Lowell George with a DynaComp (two in series, actually). That's an example of extreme compression - "squashing the sound" - but it's not its definition and there are many forms of compression that are close to transparent.

Brad put it this way some time back - tubes compress. And so do speakers. And so do transistors.

Part of this is a function of volume and how hard you're pushing the tubes, transistors, or speakers.

When people say Jerry eschewed compression, they mean he didn't get it through a pedal and the "natural" compression his tones sometimes expressed was minimal and close to transparent.

Jerry Tone Advice
Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:52 pm

JBL's are interesting. They're actually warmer and smoother in response than most "guitar" speakers that often have sharp resonant peaks. People refer to JBL's as bright, but really that just comes from the extended treble response from the metal dustcap. That metallic treble is very much a part of Jerry's clarity and sweet top end, but overall, the tone of the JBL as a whole is very smooth. Typical "guitar" speakers can be very sharp and peaky in the mid-treble range. With overdrive and dirt and tube compression, that kind of speaker does really well to clearly deliver and bring out the distortion harmonics, but playing dead clean into that kind of speaker can be brutal and ice-picky.

Think of SRV's "Lenny," a very beautiful and sweet tone, warm, clear, juicy, sparkly, and not the least bit harsh. That was a JBL 15", basically the same voice coil and treble as the 12" like Jerry used, a very similar speaker. People think of JBL's as bright because at low volume the metal dustcap zing is very present and up front. But when you get louder and push the speaker, the paper begins to dominate and show off that smooth overall character and warm JBL voicing, and the metal dustcap is there to keep things present on top and not get buried in a mix.

JBL's can be ugly sounding if you use the wrong kind of distortion pedal. Some pedals have high treble distortion content that really sets off the JBL metal dustcap in the wrong kind of way, buzzy and kazoo like, not pretty.

B
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[hippieguy1954]

Yes, and I wholeheartedly agree with "compression" in that respect. It's pretty much irrefutable that it is an inherent property in the electrical components, other variables and such that you listed.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. That one quoted from Brad is great too! Thanks for diggin that up
But, the op specifically asked if "Jerry used a compressor in his rig".
Just to avoid any confusion, the answer is no.

[Jon S.]

Agreed!

[loudnclear]

Thanks guys! My first post and within 12 hours I got a bunch of great responses. You guys rule.

So no compressor pedal as I figured. I've always found it to be a challenge to approach Jerry's "singing" clean sound on tunes like "Eyes". The post on the JBLs was very revelatory. When you get them really moving, they start to really sing. But few of us mere mortals have the opportunity to put massive clean McCintosh power into JBLs to get them to really open up like Jerry did, day in, and day out, for decades. I have had good luck with the Mad Professor Forest Green Compressor on "Sus-tainer" mode for my clean Jerriations. It's a real neat pedal as it has two switchable modes, "Compressor" and "Sus-tainer". The "Sus-tainer" mode does't clamp down on your attack at all, as it only brings up the subtler sounds, not bring down the louder ones. The result is, surprise surprise, more sustain and a little more note articulation. I think it is a cool Jerry tool and one that fellow Jerriatrics might appreciate.

[Jon S.]

Myself, I use an actual compressor (Line 6 M13 digital model) in one instance - before my envelope filter ("Tron Up" digital model). It levels the input to the envelope filter to maintain a consistent tone without those nasty transient peaks.

[Searing75]

Get a K120. Easier to push, as it's lower wattage than the E.

Hers a good question. I think? How about through the Deads PA? Was Jerry's signal somehow routed through some compression through the main PA? Possible. Likely.

[SarnoMusicSolutions]

I find a "compressor" to be perhaps the easiest way to destroy a good Jerry tone. They completely obliterate the attack envelope of a note, so totally contrary to Jerry's touch and control over the sound and the note and its attack. Jerry was truly an extreme example of anti-compression.

Sure the gear will do some of that, but it's good to make the distinction between "compression" and "limiting". While similar, limiting is defined as a dynamic control over the peaks where the bulk of the signal remains fully linear/dynamic. Jerry's rig did some "clipping" and in a way it can be viewed as a form of limiting or maybe dirty-limiting. It's achieved by pushing the amp and speakers to their max to where they can no longer deliver more clean signal, so they round off, they clip and distort. The JBL's make a sweet, squirty sound when they are pushed to the brink. The Mac clips in a pretty clean way too. But none of it is true limiting or compression per se.

At the board, Healy absolutely hated, hated, hated, compression. He never used it and would rant on how it killed dynamics. He'd even bitch about Weir's compression, but personally I think Weir's compression was key, part of the magic.

Healy did use a lot of peak limiters at the board so that everything in the band could be very dynamic and in the control of the musician, but for technical reasons, you have to put a hard ceiling on a clean signal so they don't peak and distort the system. But in general and besides Weir, the Dead and their tones typify anti-compression. Healy was passionate about the power of dynamics and that the band famously lived by that (other than Weir). Compression, by nature, kills dynamics.

Short answer, don't expect a compressor, pedal or at the board, to help get a better Jerry tone. It will only destroy it.

B

[James-T]

Hey Brad.

Great post. On a totally unrelated topic what would the sonic differences be between your SMS powered by a McItosh versus a Carvin or Crest power amp? Still thinking about that 89 fall tour and the Wolf being played through a Crest power amp.

Peace,

James

[Smolder]

I've been playing with compressors for a couple of months... Right now using a (nearly) always on $37 clone of a clone of a Diamond Comp. It helps a lot when playing at the lower volumes I experience.

When I go into Jerry mode I turn it off and additionally it absolutely kills any envelope filter lead work.

I've had an earth drive in position one of my non-obel board and have been swapping the comp back and forth with the ED in positions one and two. I use the ED to get close to that speaker break up Jerry attained. No conclusions or decisions as of yet.

[SarnoMusicSolutions]

... what would the sonic differences be between your SMS powered by a McItosh versus a Carvin or Crest power amp? Still thinking about that 89 fall tour and the Wolf being played through a Crest power amp...

Well, Jerry apparently didn't care much for the Crest as it didn't last long in his rig. I guess it could be seen as a failed experiment. This question had me listening back to some of that Fall '89 stuff. What I hear is a "too clean" quality to his sound. I mean, sure, it's Jerry and he sounds great because he played great, but the tone didn't flatter like the Mac did. In that Crest amplified stuff it sounds kind of sterile and lifeless as if he wasn't comfortable pushing the Crest into that magical, sweet, squirty, juicy distortion like he did with the Mac. It just sounds clean unless he kicks on a dirt pedal. His softer played stuff almost gets too quiet and wimpy. Compare that to the Mac around that era and I think you'll hear the Mac's magic. Maybe the Crest was just too powerful to crank up into clipping, and then again we know the Mac seems to like clipping, it does something special when it's a tiny bit dirty and pushed to the power limits.

Regarding a Carvin amp. The only one I've had reports on is the TS100, the two-channel rackmount tube amp. I hear great things about it, but until I get on in my own hands and really push it and test it, I can't fairly comment on it. But I do think the Carvin TS100 is a worthy consideration for people wanting to get a nice, clean, overdrive-able power amp at a loud but acceptable stage volume.

There's that great dilemma with the Mc2300. It's pretty damn hard to turn it up like Jerry did and not get kicked out of the band or get shanked by the soundman.

I think many of us are constantly searching for how to get the closest Jerry sound but scaled way down to acceptable stage volumes. I still feel like the Mac transistor series are the ticket, but maybe with the smaller ones like the Mc250, Mc100, Mc2100, Mc50, or similar. But you know, even on the Mc2300 there are so many impedance taps available that you can scale down the loudness by using the lower Z taps. For example, you could try the .5-Ohm tap into a 4-Ohm speaker cabinet and that mismatch would bring the power/loudness way down and allow some transistor clipping. But at that point you're lugging a 128lb. amp around when the smaller, lighter Mac's may be a more practical choice. And then when we scale the amp power down, we get further and further away from that magical (and expensive) sound of pushing the JBLs to the brink and occasionally cooking them. Maybe the solution there is just using 1 JBL instead of 2 or 3. That way the single speaker can be pushed harder and stressed out riding that edge of blowing where the thing naturally dirties up a bit and self-limits, or compresses a bit. I still feel pretty strongly that that's part of Jerry's magic formula, beating the shit out of the JBL but being in control enough and aware enough to not cook one.

B

[James-T]

Hey Brad,

Great response. I appreciate it. As I write this I'm listening to a show I was at. Jerry at the Starry Might in Portland. A bar venue so small there was no stage. 1984. The recording must be from right on front of Jerry as the guitar is louder than the vocals. Even in such a small venue he got the tone in spades.

So I do concur with you on pushing those speakers and getting some clipping on the transistors. You got me sold on McIntosh. I think I'll hunt down an MC50 in the next year or so.

And Id love to play through a SMS some time but I'm just totally in love with my SF Vibrolux and like many have just too many amp options already. But I'd be interested in hearing how your SMS would compare to a black faced Vibrolux. One that's had a few mods already to fatten up the tone.

Peace,

James