Grateful Dead Music Forum

That was me and I was there.

Jon S. wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 5:31 pm That was me and I was there.

Hey Jon! Not to put you on the spot, but what about that Jack Straw?! There's something so unique for me about that performance. I'd love to see video of it (for Jerry's solos) if I could somehow "see" the Dead perform any song from any show.
There are longer and higher energy versions (1.11.79 and 10.20.84 come first to mind), but Cornell 77's Jack Straw jams have a thematic core motif (I still can't recreate) and flow that's so pleasing to my ears. Jerry also employs some kind country-ish, bluegrassy hoe-down bends and riffs I've not noticed in any other performance of the song. If I had to choose only one song from that show to be able to hear, it's that Jack Straw.

Any thoughts/memories/insights?

On a side note, Ween has a tune called "I'll Be Your Jonny on the Spot" on their album The Mollusk. I'd not heard the expression "Jonny on the spot" before, then it popped up again for me in the movie V for Vendetta. I won't get into Ween here, but just say they're eclectic in their range.

I'll be honest - and this is not something I'm necessarily proud of today - I was peaking so heavily to start the first set, I don't remember a thing from it until Brown Eyed Women (when I finally came down to the earth again, so to speak). So I can't comment on Jack Straw other than, same as you, from the recording.

I can tell you that while it was a certainly wonderful show at the time, none of my group, at least, were aware then of how special it would be viewed by posterity. Life is like that - it's only with hindsight, sometimes, that we realize how special we had it at the time.

Not long after the Dead show, the following January, I returned to Barton Hall for ELP. Holy crap, I remember all of that show. It was incredible!

Brings to mind a T-shirt my wife got me a couple of years ago. It’s just a plain shirt that says “I may be old, but I got to see all the cool bands”. Funny, but with a strong element of truth.

Bill, tgo

I love that saying, too!

FromWichita wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:17 pm

Jon S. wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:20 am

FromWichita wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:16 pm Hey folks! Today is the anniversary of 5/8/77

I enjoyed that show.

Hey, neat picture! I presume that's you. Were you there? I can't imagine witnessing that show in person.

5/8/77 also has a great Row Jimmy. I think Jerry uses slide for both solos.

I've often wondered if that's not Bobby on rhythm slide

FromWichita wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:15 pm Anyway, regarding Brown Eyed Women, it occurred to me after my post that "the rest were sins" doesn't necessarily have to refer to more twins. And the "twins" don't even have to be all boys. My mistake! "The rest were sins" could refer to at the least, four more male offspring if the aforementioned sets of twins were all boys. "Raised eight boys" doesn't preclude there being girls.

I don’t know, but I’ve always wondered if “sins” meant illegitimate. As in from outside marriage. A way to say a bit more about Delilah without going straight to the point.

wabisabied wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 12:19 pm I don’t know, but I’ve always wondered if “sins” meant illegitimate. As in from outside marriage. A way to say a bit more about Delilah without going straight to the point.

That's how I always interpreted it.

Bill, tgo

Jon S. wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 4:55 am I'll be honest - and this is not something I'm necessarily proud of today - I was peaking so heavily to start the first set, I don't remember a thing from it until Brown Eyed Women (when I finally came down to the earth again, so to speak). So I can't comment on Jack Straw other than, same as you, from the recording.

I can tell you that while it was a certainly wonderful show at the time, none of my group, at least, were aware then of how special it would be viewed by posterity. Life is like that - it's only with hindsight, sometimes, that we realize how special we had it at the time.

Not long after the Dead show, the following January, I returned to Barton Hall for ELP. Holy crap, I remember all of that show. It was incredible!

Well, what can you do? I was kind of hoping for some first-person witness insight...
So, thank you for your honesty (to the point of recklessness!). I understand not comprehending the magnitude of an event you're part of...
BEW onward is still a good majority! As I mentioned before, that BEW is probably my favorite version. I also must say the next tune - Mama Tried - is another of my 5/8/77 favorite versions. (the 4.12.78 Mama Tried -> Mexicali is awesome too.) Row Jimmy is exquisite.

Do you remember "Take a step back" at the beginning of set II? 5.8.77 was the first time I ever heard the Dead give directions the the audience. (5.8.77 being among the first high quality bootleg shows I acquired) It's also the most elaborate one I've heard. The "backwards" drumming is mesmerizing and Keith's low-key background delicate playing of that tune (kind of an Indian feel) whose name I don't know is just perfect - it has that vibe of suspense and intrigue - I think I'd heard it in cartoons. And the banter from Bobby, with Jerry's chiming in... I remember being stoned listening to that - Bobby's final "then your friends up front won't be real bug-eyed" made me crack up as the thought hit me that some folks could be bug-eyed for reasons other than being crushed from behind.
(Somewhat related: 10.20.84 after the epic Set I closer Jack Straw, Bobby simply tells the crowd "Take a step back.". It's the only time I've heard it at the end of a first set.)

Scarlet starts perfectly, Jerry's unique voice soaring above the mix. Then the effortlessly laid-back, lyrically dancing Scarlet solo, and that magical transition (I read someone somewhere say that Keith's taking the Scarlet outro riff part laid the foundation for this transition's unmatched grandeur, I presume by freeing up Jerry from playing it) with it's build-ups and culmination in those fast rippling Jerry cascades (I would try to visualize how quickly his fingers had to move), and the clearly delineated, full-band "start" of Fire on the Mountain. I recall while tripping, stopping to rewind the tape after what I call the "turnaround" in the first solo - when Jerry plays a long series of "logical" passages that build up to a climaxing "mirror" phrase I instinctively termed a "turnaround" - to re-listen to it over an over. It blew me away. I'd never heard anything like that before.

PS
I never found ELO interesting, though admittedly I've only heard a handful of songs on the radio. I'm a good deal younger than you too; I was 1.5 years old when you were at Barton Hall for, debatably, the greatest Dead show!

strumminsix wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:09 am

FromWichita wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:17 pm

Jon S. wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:20 am
I enjoyed that show.

Hey, neat picture! I presume that's you. Were you there? I can't imagine witnessing that show in person.

5/8/77 also has a great Row Jimmy. I think Jerry uses slide for both solos.

I've often wondered if that's not Bobby on rhythm slide

Hmm. I'll have to give it a very close listen. I think Jerry does play slide during both solos, which doesn't mean Bobby couldn't have been too.
I'm not sure when Bobby started breaking out the slide. If I'd had to estimate when, I'd have said '78, so '77 is surely possible. I've heard the observation "Bobby learned to play slide onstage!" haha
I'll come back around after I check it out.

EDIT: In the 2nd solo I definitely heard Bobby's guitar chiming nice bright multi-note accents, but I couldn't be sure if it was pick-and-plucking or slide. Whether he was on slide or not, he played at the perfect volume in the mix and with nice control/restraint - I didn't notice the pitch vary. I'm not a slide player myself, btw! Maybe my ears hadn't picked up on his early slide use. Now it'll be something I'll listen for in '77 shows. '77 - early '79 are my overall favorite years - great energy and power. I love the delicate jazzy Dark Stars and Wharf Rats from '71 - '74. I prefer the Godchaux era. '79 and early 80's for me are Jerry at the height of his power, though his voice started to lose something. There are some eye-popping, stand-out unique jam '81 shows like Dick's Picks 13 and 8.28.81. My collection doesn't evenly represent all the years... It seems Jerry's playing became "monstrous and wicked" from '83 - '85; don't know else to describe it! haha I'll stop now. Slide on You Crazy Diamond!

lbpesq wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 1:32 pm

wabisabied wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 12:19 pm I don’t know, but I’ve always wondered if “sins” meant illegitimate. As in from outside marriage. A way to say a bit more about Delilah without going straight to the point.

That's how I always interpreted it.

Bill, tgo

Same here! First and only way I took it. Nicely rhymes with "twins" too.

I wonder whether Casey could be part of this family.

Hey - has anyone heard 11.4.77 at Colgate University? (One of the fastest Eyes I've ever heard, though I wouldn't be surprised if some of those mid 80's versions are faster.) Anyway, before the start of Set II Bobby says "In case you're wondering, something doesn't work. We're gonna try and make it work." then the tape cuts - to resume with Phil mid-sentence introducing the band members and even a few of the crew with "Jones" as their last name! Highlights include "and of course, on drums - the one and only - Julius P. Jones!" (for Billy), "and center-stage, ladies and gentlemen, a star whose name has gone beyond him - even unto the farthest galaxies, ahahahah, Bob Jones!", "...actually, I'm Phil Jones and that's Mick Jones! And now I'd like to introduce all the other Joneses. Would all the other Joneses step right out here? We have Harry Jones over here! We have Alex Jones over there!" Phil continues incoherently, then Bobby cuts in with "Mama - she was a good ol' gal." Jerry introduces "Donna Jean Jones!" then quips "Freshly deported from Canada." The set starts with Samson and Delilah! (Could that be mere coincidence?)
They'd played Brown Eyed Women in Set I. It's very mysterious to me. It's quite possible there's a version out there, without the cut I've had to live with all these years, that preserves the lost seconds or minutes and can answer me the "How?" and/or "Why?" I've asked alternately, so many times, from soft whisper to clear request to shouted demand to screaming pleas!

On a "distantly related" note, has anyone ever read William Faulkner's As I Lay Dying? It's a truly great book; far more tragic than comic - the tragedies follow so closely upon each other it becomes somehow comical. Any reader (except a sociopath) can't help thinking "how can things possibly get worse?" at least once - though multiple times are understandable, and Faulkner's genius keeps you reeling!
Anyway, Per Wikipedia: "The book is narrated by 15 different characters over 59 chapters." & "It is consistently ranked among the best novels of 20th Century literature".
If anyone has read/does read it, they'll understand why I brought it up here!

Good night!

Hey - I said I saw EL***P*** at Barton Hall, not fakokta ELO!

Jon S. wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:18 am Hey - I said I saw EL***P*** at Barton Hall, not fakokta ELO!

Hahahaha! I obviously misread "ELP". I even went back to check out your post and I was again reminded "humility is endless". (I just google searched that phrase's origin and it's from a T.S. Eliot poem I don't believe I've ever read. I read it somewhere though. That quote, not the poem.)

I figured maybe the Electric Light Orchestra put on a great live show - I would presume they'd have had an over-the-top crazy light-show! And as I know there's no accounting for taste, I'd not think less of you had you gone to an ELO show. Seriously! But I too would want to set the record straight.

(EDIT) I figured it out! Emerson Lake and Palmer! Man, that "EL***P***" threw me off.

Jon S. wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:18 am Hey - I said I saw EL***P*** at Barton Hall, not fakokta ELO!

OK, ELP......but what's wrong with ELO? I saw Jeff Lynne's ELO......great show.

ebick wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:42 am

Jon S. wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:18 am Hey - I said I saw EL***P*** at Barton Hall, not fakokta ELO!

OK, ELP......but what's wrong with ELO? I saw Jeff Lynne's ELO......great show.

Did they have an over-the-top light show?
I actually looked up "fakakta" (sic), a word I'd only heard on radio and probably TV. This is not an answer to your question, ebick, which is obviously for 5.8.77-attendee Jon S. to answer, but the word translates to "shitty, full of crap". I look forward to Jon S.'s reply.

Simply due to appearance, I had thought Jeff Lynne was Al Kooper, or that they were the same person!
I did a little research and learned that one of John Lennon's favorite songs was ELO's "Showdown". Here's a short YouTube clip of Lennon on New York's WNEW radio saying as much, and dubbing ELO "sons of the Beatles"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOBm8hcvWDw

It seems critics expressed some agreement.
Lynne got some major inspiration being in studio during White Album recording, though he reports leaving after a half hour to not seem to be "a dick". I'd have stayed til Ringo punched me "with rings on every finger"!

Personally, having heard just a very few ELO tunes "Witchy Woman", "Don't Bring Me Down" and just checked out first 2 minutes of "Showdown", I don't hear it. But that's not enough to think I know better than John Lennon!