Grateful Dead Music Forum

James- fwiw, I have both a BF Vibrolux (2 Webers), and an SMS. The VR is really a great sounding amp (as is yours- I was just listening to your other post. Def liked it over the Fractal), but the SMS gets way closer and thus the VR stays home. The VR is also too loud.
Cheers!

Wow, that's really interesting. I was thinking that even with the VL being pushed by the Micro amp it is still thin on the mids, and thin in general - of course there is no mid pot, just treble and bass. I was thinking about running a boss EQ in front of it or even trying a Keeley pre amp - like the Juggler - but why go that route, when for just a few extra $ you can have an SMS? Like I said a before, had I know what I know now I'd go the SMS route. But I do utilize the Fractal with my VL, as an effects only unit and it just opens up a world of opportunities. There really is nothing like it out there for modulation and delay effects. What that VL does get is a great vintage Jerry tone, like the E72 stuff. It just lacks in the more modern tones.

I've got a number of other Fractal patches that use other amp models and when pushed by a OD in front or pre amp in the simulation really fatten up the tone, but still not "the tone", because the high end is just too harsh with the sims. At least through the FRFR monitors. I think the Fractal sounds better through my BWG power amp and 2x12 D120F cab. It loosens the sound so it doesn't appear so present, compressed and studio like. But it still lets chords get muddied up, They just don't sound as clear, yet OD like Jerry could get with his super fat cleans.

Peace,

James

It occurred to me over the weekend that it's funny to read in this thread how "compression is the Jerry killer." It reminds me of another recent thread on preamp settings for Jerry tone where people started out with, "zero out your bass control - bass is the Jerry killer," but then as the discussion got more nuanced, several people opined how they like at least some small amount of added bass with their rigs, such as the preamp's bass control on 2 rather than 0. And we all got it - few if any of us have Jerry's precise rig and of the few who do even less are blasting it out at Dead stage volumes so, for many of us, yes, the tone is better with a little added bass. It's the same deal with compression which is why I myself will never insist that absolutely zero added compression is always the best with even a little bit added at all always being "the Jerry killer." Again, there are all sorts of compression from preamps, amps, and speakers, in addition to stand-alone boxes or digital modelers, and also many people use the term compression liberally to refer to compressing and/or limiting so a fuller discussion like we're having here now on these topics is definitely helpful.

Good points Jon.

I think the better way to state it would be that a "compressor" is a Jerry tone killer. Compressors have a dynamic attack envelope that literally alters the gain by sensing a voltage, turning down the gain and then with a time controlled circuit, returns the gain back to normal. It's this front end clamping down on the signal, altering the natural guitar pick dynamics and preventing that "spike" from hitting the amp and speakers that is the killer. Jerry's tone relied so heavily on that pick transient being fully intact before the amp so that it would do that sweet little squirt of distortion and so his fingers had total control over that attack transient. And sure, there is a little bit of "compression" happening when the amp clips, when the preamp gets pushed hard, when the speakers are pushed to the limit, but that kind of compression is not time or circuit based, it's really just a soft form of clipping, sometimes so mild that it doesn't sound obviously distorted, but it does clamp the signal and generate some musically harmonic artifacts. It's a true "compressor" that I find to be the enemy of this dynamic control over what the strings do and what the rig does.

Works great for Weir. That contrast between the heavily compressed Weir and the uncompressed Jerry is obviously a winning combination.

B