[Tennessee Jedi]

IMHO Phil is ahead of Bobby in importance in creating the band's overall sound and success because to me he found his core style a lot sooner than Bobby did. The band was already well established both sylisticall and financially before Bobby matured into a strong musician IMHO.

.02 $ my friend
Bob wrote and sung 1/2 the DEAD catalog. Bob is was ( other than Pig ) for all practical purposes the Front Man ( in as much as the Dead have a 'front man' ).
In the 60's Phil was bigger than Bob I grant you that - but 70's 80's 90's is all Bobs.

[JonnyBoy]

I wish they didn't dick the dog with all these other musicians in the first place. I personally couldn't stand the Allman bros. sound mixed with The Dead. Glad that's Ova!

IMO, if this rolls on for awhile and say something happens to Bob,.. Eaton should step in. Keep the wheels on the bus.

I really like Russo. What an Amazing drummer. However, if Bill and Mickey did step in how awesome would this Furthur trip be?



PS. GO PATS!!

Yes, agreed. All the musicians have earned their ability and keep, and are worth listening to/playing with as the slots open. It is more than just the music, even though the music most important to me at my age, the scene sculpted me as a person so to say, we can use it still since I have Kids that deserve their fun in the sun. It may not be the exact band, but the message is the same, and a dose of that is good spiritual fun for anybody.

[Rusty the Scoob]

IMHO Phil is ahead of Bobby in importance in creating the band's overall sound and success because to me he found his core style a lot sooner than Bobby did. The band was already well established both sylisticall and financially before Bobby matured into a strong musician IMHO.

.02 $ my friend
Bob wrote and sung 1/2 the DEAD catalog. Bob is was ( other than Pig ) for all practical purposes the Front Man ( in as much as the Dead have a 'front man' ).
In the 60's Phil was bigger than Bob I grant you that - but 70's 80's 90's is all Bobs.

Sure, Bobby wrote about a quarter the GD catalog and found covers to fill another quarter, but Phil contributed more to the sound of the band itself and contributed heavily to the entire GD catalog.

[Tennessee Jedi]

IMHO Phil is ahead of Bobby in importance in creating the band's overall sound and success because to me he found his core style a lot sooner than Bobby did. The band was already well established both sylisticall and financially before Bobby matured into a strong musician IMHO.


Sure, Bobby wrote about a quarter the GD catalog and found covers to fill another quarter, but Phil contributed more to the sound of the band itself and contributed heavily to the entire GD catalog.

Well ....
If Bob wrote a 1/4 than its still more than Phil. Sugar Mags Yo ! Playin' Yo! Estimated Yo !
Big tunes in the Dead catalog !

Phil has great riffs ( St Stephen' -Eyes '74 end jam -Terrapin ) but they are for the most parts collaborations with the band members....
You could argue that Bob sung back ups and lead on many a tune. More than Phil.
You could also say that Bob has come up with some of the Deads all time hooks/riffs ... on his tunes and others.
Phil doesnt do much for me past the early 80's. The rest of the band tightens up and Phil is still Phil.Love him !
But bigger than Bob ????
No way !

Bob is def the better musician too.

[strumminsix]

Sure, Bobby wrote about a quarter the GD catalog and found covers to fill another quarter, but Phil contributed more to the sound of the band itself and contributed heavily to the entire GD catalog.

So by that logic Mickey is more important than Phil since he has more hits than Phil has notes.

And you have to discount the Jerry songs that he completely and utterly fucked up the lyrics to and just mumbled line after line into the mic

[Tennessee Jedi]

Bob is def the better musician too.

[Rusty the Scoob]

So by that logic Mickey is more important than Phil since he has more hits than Phil has notes.

Not at all - the amount of notes has nothing to do with it, it's the overall impact on the band's sound. In '73 without Mickey they sounded different but still instantly recognizeable as the Grateful Dead - but without Phil providing that free-roaming melodic counterpoint underneath rather than conventional basslines they would have probably sounded more or less like the JGB plus Bobby - a totally different vibe, a totally different dynamic, a totally different band. I'd even argue that Bobby's rhythmic guitar style evolved to fit between Phil and Jerry - he was the little brother who came along and added to a band that was already great.

I'll agree that Phil got bored and stopped really contributing halfway through the 80's when Jerry deteriorated - but if you're going to hold that against him you'd better also hold Bobby's squeaking and squacking in the 90's against him doubly.

Who sounded more like the GD, Ratdog or P&F? I'd say P&F with no question... and that is no coincidence. Which of the two side bands does Furthur sound more like? Again I say P&F, also not a coincidence. The bass player shapes the band's sound.

Bobby contributed a lot to the catalog but Phil makes the band sound like the Grateful Dead.

[strumminsix]

So, if the "whose sideband sounds more like the GD" is the judge, then I'd say Phil is the GD.
P&F sounded more like the GD than Ratdog, JGB, JGAB, Legion of Mary, Reconstruction, etc.

I think other members club bands purposely tried not to sound the GD and they did just that.
Phil, by contrast, always sounds like Phil of the GD. I think that says something right there...

[dleonard]

It's come down to whether Weir's shorts are cooler than Phil's wristbands then. That or steel cage match

[tcsned]

It's come down to whether Weir's shorts are cooler than Phil's wristbands then. That or steel cage match

Pretty even . . . the capris pushed things solidly into Phil's corner

[Tennessee Jedi]

Bobby contributed a lot to the catalog but Phil makes the band sound like the Grateful Dead.

Rusty -
You are Ok in my book dude - just for the sake of conversation ...
Yeah you are def right - Phils original sound and approach does greatly impact the Deads sound.
Its defining, almost.
Yet- I must admit I have come full circle on Phil. At 1st I thought of him as Jerry level of greatness and rather oddly despised Weir.Phil had his own " Zone " and dropped "bombs" and we called Bob "showboat " .....
Yet now after 25 years of listening their roles have flip flopped.
Just from being a musician ( a crappy one yes )my thought of what a 'bass player' should be has changed.
Phil seems undisciplined to me.Not as supportive. Off on his own.
And Bob seems the complete opposite - team player and incredible musician. The way that guy works a rhythm/beat is amazing. The chords the harmony stuff ....
I dont mean to bash on Phil - he is an all time great in my book.
The Bob Star is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Dead I guess is my point ?????

Just thoughts and .02$ crap

[Rusty the Scoob]

Conversation's all I'm after. I like talking about music more than gear, personally... I focus on gear just as a way to make the music sound the way I want it to sound.

I think Bobby's great. He can light up the faces of a full stadium full of people. I'd love to have that kind of influence, and I've tried to bring some of that into my own playing even though I don't have the same role.

My idea of what a bass player should be is constantly evolving, too. I like the freedom that I get when I'm Phil, and I like holding down a groove, too. It's hard to shift gears back and forth.

Undisiplined is a great word to describe Phil's playing... I'd also add in Uncompromising - he has this giant brain and can't turn it off even if he tries. A great example is the P&F shows with Trey and Page - they do Down With Disease and Phil can't play the intro right! I could teach practically anybody to play it in half an hour, but he just can't settle his mind down to get the rhythm right. But then the jam is out of this world.

As far as wanting a bass player that only just keeps to simple grooves, I'm not really interested in doing that anymore. You guitar players know where beat one is and what chord we're on, I shouldn't have to force-feed it to you every single measure. Don't worry, I'll play it when I think you need it.

[JonnyBoy]

You guitar players know where beat one is and what chord we're on, I shouldn't have to force-feed it to you every single measure. Don't worry, I'll play it when I think you need it.

Love it.

[strumminsix]

You guitar players know where beat one is and what chord we're on, I shouldn't have to force-feed it to you every single measure. Don't worry, I'll play it when I think you need it.

While that is hilarious it's also mostly true of Phil. He was able to do this because because of MH. It is tiresome on my ears to hear a kick without a bass note.

[Rusty the Scoob]

I think it's the Mickey/Billy combo that allowed Phil that freedom - Billy holds the groove while both Mickey and Phil are free to play off him, knowing that he's got their back. Phil's playing his ass off right now with just Joe Russo, because Joe is solid 100% of the time.

That's one area where he and I differ, I like to let the drummer play fills and ideas while I hold things down sometimes. Unless I have two drummers... then I'm more free to let them work with each other while I do whatever I want.

I do think Phil became a lot more of a solid supporting bassist in the P&F years, probably due to teaching the songs to so many new musicians. He's still pretty active but his groove is tighter and more consistent.

I don't understand your comment about a kick drum beat without a bass note being tiring... I like to lock in with it, I'll even line up on stage where I can see it if possible - but sometimes it's nice to leave some space or provide some contrast to what they're doing, otherwise you just become either overbearing or background noise.