[Chuckles]

Tao of music, or Sheryl Crow?

[dleonard]

PLUS...I don't like that he's taken a jab at John Kadlecik. The few opportunities I've gotten to say hi to him he's been the coolest most humble dude.

[JonnyBoy]

oops, Tao of Crow.

I think We have to remind ourselves that internet periodicals are not held up to the intense scrutiny, citing practices and editing that a popular guitar mag, or the Inquirer, Sun or Star would be. It is possible he never even said it, maybe said snippets of the statement all in different contexts in an hour of Buzzed bar conversation, then molded into a paraphrase. It is funny and kinda stupid he would knock the SAME shit he's doing himself. I have never known/heard Billy to be a raving dick and stupid like that. Maybe he meant that he would be a part of Further today if there was someone he has always wanted to collaborate with, like Warren, which he did. He is doing his thang, but the "7's" actually sound worse than Further doing GD music imo, and it is not that hard for everyone to see that fact. Their original stuff has its moments.

Papa Mali is a local guy from my neck of the woods, and he is a good player, but I can point to a few more swamp rockers roun heya that kick some better ass than him (I know he would agree) and even Warren with their Mississippi mud slide guitar techniques (and yes Warren is an awesome slide player, but you can tell some of these guys here were born with a glass pill bottle on their little finger). Blues is just in the blood down here. They are all happy being the kings of the swamp though, lots of fans, a way of life, never a complaint and never bad blood at Papa, we all wanna be at the right place at the right time playing our best to be pulled into the majors and he put his time in for sure. He even did it from Shreveport, LA. There ain't nothin' there but rednecks, old share croppers, casinos and alligators. Watch Billy the Exterminator sometime.

[gr8fullfred]

One more comment:

” Kreutzmann said. “Anyways, I don’t feel they’re doing anything really new with their music.”

Gr8fullfred says:
11/21/2010
Set 2:

Weather Report Suite>Time (Floyd)>Let it Grow

Yep Nutn new there, nutn at all.

[tcsned]

It seems like BK, Phil, and Bobby are in some internal, political squabble. Whether it's hurt feelings that Billy and Mickey were not in this band or something else is pure conjecture. I wouldn't even venture a guess other than it's probably about something that none of us suspect. As most of the folks on the board know all too well, being in a band with someone is like being married to them and when you're in that close of contact for that long shit can get real dysfunctional - the Dead were masters of dysfunctional.

I personally was pretty skeptical of a guy from a Dead cover band taking Jerry's spot.They tried with other guys who were as good as players as anyone out there (Warren and Jimmy Herring among others) but it always seemed like Bobby and Phil were struggling to play the way they wanted to play. JK has done an admirable job stepping into some pretty huge and intimidating shoes. I thoroughly enjoyed the show we went to. It wasn't the same as a GD show but that isn't possible to have anymore. I agree with a lot of what deadlyheptet said other than the Dead are a lot different than the Beatles. The Beatles were not really a "live" band. That's really all the Dead were, their music needed to be played in real time to really experience it. Tapes (ok, I dated myself)... CDs are cool but don't do the experience justice. I wouldn't seek out a Beatles tribute act because that isn't what the Beatles were about. I think Bobby and Phil found someone they could work with finally that wasn't a struggle. It's different for Mickey and Billy as percussionists - they aren't trying to melodically engage the guitar play in the same way a bassist and rhythm guitarist have to do. The drummers have a different, albeit equally important interaction with the lead guitar but I don't think they felt similarly held back by the guitar players that didn't play like Jerry so much. They may have been frustrated with Bobby and Phil for not being able to get it.

I love playing Dead music and have been doing so for almost 25 years, it would be hypocritical to hate on Further for doing something that I have done for so long. They may be a GD cover band but they are one fucking good one.

[gr8fullfred]

No doubt some internal struggles have been going on and continue to do so.

1)For along time Phil (with Phil and Friends) did not do one Bobby song. Then in more or less recent P&Fs Bobby songs enter the mix. Not sure what this means but it means something.

2)Went to Vegoose festival year II(2006), had a great time and was introduced the the String Cheese Incident (and in case you missed them DHs, the Cheese was freaking fantastic!) At this festival, both the Rhythm Devils and Phil and Trey are there, play the same stage, Phil&Trey right after the the RDs (with Mike Gordan on bass just to furthur confuse and Kimock) with no interaction between the bands.
Clearly some friction happening

3)New Years 2008 Went to the shows, P&F and Ratdog co host, P&F opens one night, Rat Dog the next with a mini set in the middle with Phil and Bobby. Phil and Bobby Hug on stage. Clearly a softening of the tensions between these two.

4)2009 "The Dead" tour. All parties are amiable apparently, I did not see any of the tour.

5)2010 Furthur tours, clearly a rift between BK and (Bobby and Phil), not sure what Mickey position is.

Summary, there were issues, Bobby and Phil have resolved between themselves. Looks like issues between BK and B&P, not sure whats up with Mickey

My position: Nice to see them I am just a diehard, Furthur definitely sounds good.

[tigerstrat]

Wow, so many theories.

[keirweir]

Further is selling out small and mid sized arenas... That might reflect Furthers popularity a tad as well as be a result that they are playing the music the fans want to hear (almost) the way they want to hear it.

Nothing against Billy either.. He is the man

[brbadg]

Well I'm glad he didn't take a stab at Russo,cause that guy just plain kicks ass.

[tcsned]

Well I'm glad he didn't take a stab at Russo,cause that guy just plain kicks ass.

amongst all of our conjecture, a statement of fact

[DeadlyHeptet]

To clarify; I think we all agree no one could replace Jerry. When I say "replace", I don't mean someone who can play his licks or "fill in" for him. In reading some of the responses, I still don't think a lot of people understand this. Have I heard Further? Yes, on Youtube as I won't spend the money to see them. Not impressed. DSO were the new saviors for a time and I never got that either. As Wayne Krantz (look him up) said, "Why would a grown man want to sound like someone else?"

Again, my issue is more the fact that the very essence of what I felt they were about has been violated. If you are going to play new, improvised music, go with one of the people I stated or someone like them, not some guy who has made a career of aping Jerry, nor someone who is, best they can, filling in for him. Bring some new energy, life and direction to the band. They had and declined that opportunity.

Still a trip going to a show because you meet old DH friends and party? Sure, but that is not about the music, that is a scene which is fine, but it isn't about the music. I was called an elitist years ago when "The Other Ones" hit the road and I refused to support it. This by someone who never saw the Dead and thought String Cheese were the next Grateful Dead. Obviously, most of the old fans aren't supporting this band, but the PR department is pumping them as the next coming.

Phil and Bobby don't get along and this is a way to make some cash. Fine it is what it is, but this talk of how incredible they are, is WAY over the top. I still think they could pull it off, the rest of the band are great musicians, but not with figurehead Jerry.

[Stevo123]

Jeez man just go see a show! I don't think you have any idea what you're missing out on.

[dleonard]

2 words...Lighten Up

[Chuckles]

DH -

Let me tell you why I disagree with you...

First, I find Jerry worship to be ridiculous. And so did he.

As for the hatin' on JK, I don't get it at all. Not only is Furthur doing exactly what has been suggested ("I am not talking about playing him note for note; I am talking about the spirit in which the music was intended. My thought was that could they continue to make new, experimental music."), but it is better in many respects than anything Jerry and the boys threw up during the latter years. Figurehead? John's a contributing member of a collective band, far from even intimating he's anything other than a guitar player blessed to be playing with a bunch of other highly skilled players. Russo, I'd posit, is as good or better than either BK or Mickey at their prime. Chimenti is as talented a keyboard player as Phil or Bobby have ever toured with. Phil's playing some of the most original bass lines I've ever heard him play. Bobby... well, he's Bobby.

Talk about making a buck? It's widely acknowledged that the GD continued to tour despite Garcia's health issues and drug addictions precisely because of the pressure to do so. It hurt the music and probably killed Garcia. One of the reasons I think Furthur is so much better (at times) than latter-day GD is precisely because the music is coming first; they aren't a bunch of drunk, smacked-up, pilled-up or coked-up hedonists. They are more consistently "on", never seemingly just going through the motions as the Dead was wont to do. Sorry, but this is a thriving band that is turning out consistently original and new takes on songs both old and new, with jams are nothing like the Grateful Dead ever played - not necessarily better, but certainly not "aping" anything that has come before.

Last, the notion that "old fans" aren't supporting this band is just silly - just go to a show and check it out - and the idea that people are only there for "the scene" is an abject absurdity and an insult to those of us who have opened our mind to living beyond the high points of mid-70s' Dead. It's still very much about the music to those of us who aren't closed to it.

Musical tastes vary, and I certainly don't begrudge anyone theirs. I fucking HATE Phish, but not because I think they are lame musicians or whatever; I just don't care for their music. I'll explain why I don't like it, but I'm not going to tell anyone else they are completely wrong in liking it. If you don't like the music Furthur's making - if it doesn't live up to your preconceived notion of what these musicians ought to be doing with their lives - so be it. Everyone here had heard the various post-Garcia takes on the music and have their own opinions, and that's all they are.

I hope it will delight you to know that my tour buddy from 83-95, who also happens to now be my wife of 20 years, agrees with you completely!

[playingdead]

It's just hearsay ... but when I was backstage at Radio City in the spring, we went to dinner before the show with someone who is close to Weir. Someone broached the drums subject and he said he was present when the subject of playing with JK on lead was broached during the Dead tour right before Furthur happened ... and he said BK's reaction about DSO was, and I quote, "Those guys have been eating off someone else's plate for years now." He just flat out refused to get involved, and Mickey sided with him. Hence, Furthur.

Can't say it's true, but I do know the gentleman we were hanging with is in Weir's inner circle. When you have the laminate and come walking in the room with Bobby after soundcheck, you don't exactly have to name drop to prove anything, if you know what I mean.