[rugger]

Actually, I'm not so much interested in one versus the other, but I have a question about these amps. I've recently purchased both; the Twin is a hand-wired '65 clone (very clean and well done), and the Deluxe is an '80 silverface. The Twin just isn't as loud as I thought it would be. It seems to hit the sweet spot around 7, which is pretty darn loud. But the Deluxe hits its sweet spot around 4-5 and, perceptually, seems almost as loud as the Twin at 6-7. Granted, the top end of the Twin is definitely louder, but it seems surprising to me that you have to get it to 7 to get there. I really haven't played through a Twin before, so I don't know. Is this the nature of these amps?

I should add that the amp has been to a tech and he didn't think there was anything wrong. When I mentioned that it didn't seem that loud, he cranked it, and there is no arguing the thing puts out when it's up past 7.

John in San Diego

[playingdead]

My former Twin was flat out deafening past 3 or 4 ... something's not right. Maybe the speakers installed are not particularly efficient?

Try plugging the Twin's output into the Deluxe's speaker and that will give you an apples to apples comparison.

[rugger]

It has a pair of Jensen C12N's.

Tomorrow I'll grab my speaker cable and give that a go.

I suspect something is awry as the one other Fender that I own (bandmaster) behaves as the Duluxe does--they typically hum nicely around 4-5.

John in San Diego

[myoung6923]

Right - what Vic said... mine makes your ears bleed at 4 - I have NEVER put it up to 7 - I just never even needed to come close to that. I keep it at 3 or 4 and my guitar volume at about 75% and I have more that enough headroom for a large stage.

Maybe it's the biasing? I had mine biased so that it gets the tiniest bit of breakup at a very high volume. It can be set so that it breaks up much sooner - maybe this is what you have going on? Or maybe a power tube issue?

You should definitely have more volume than you'll ever need at 3 or 4

[strumminsix]

I can run my DSR (twin in a head) at 7 without going deaf.

Contrast that with a TRRI that caused ears to bleed after 3.

I'm firmly of the opinion some are just louder than others.

[mijknahs]

I've owned both a Fender Deluxe and several Fender Twin Reverbs. There is no way a Deluxe is louder (or as loud) as a Twin. A Deluxe will break up much sooner than a Twin and just won't put out as much volume.

[strumminsix]

Loudness is an odd thing to measure with guitar amps. What do the 'smart guys' say double the wattage to add 3 more db?

IMO, it's the increase in clean headroom that is the most obvious.

Amps I own:
12W Pro Jr - 20W Fargen BB - 40W Fargen BB - 40W Fender VV - 80W Fender DSR

I can honestly attest that moving from one amp up to the next it doens't get that much louder.

[rugger]

Loudness is an odd thing to measure with guitar amps. What do the 'smart guys' say double the wattage to add 3 more db?

IMO, it's the increase in clean headroom that is the most obvious.

Amps I own:
12W Pro Jr - 20W Fargen BB - 40W Fargen BB - 40W Fender VV - 80W Fender DSR

I can honestly attest that moving from one amp up to the next it doens't get that much louder.

Strummin,

All of your points are accurate and valid. I don't expect the Twin to be 4x louder than the Deluxe, and there is an obvious difference in the headroom of both amps.

It's just that the Twin feels "thin" until about 6-7, unlike the other Fender amps I own. Maybe it's the biasing as someone suggested, I don't know. I don't really know much about what makes tube amps tick, that why I posted the question.

One thing I've just noticed though is that the volume pot comes on slow, that is, there is no sound until about 2-3. Maybe there is an issue with the pot?

Anyways, I'm going to take it back to the tech next week--maybe he originally gave it a crappy once over and didn't pick up on a simple problem/adjustment?

John in San Diego

[strumminsix]

Loudness is an odd thing to measure with guitar amps. What do the 'smart guys' say double the wattage to add 3 more db?

IMO, it's the increase in clean headroom that is the most obvious.

Amps I own:
12W Pro Jr - 20W Fargen BB - 40W Fargen BB - 40W Fender VV - 80W Fender DSR

I can honestly attest that moving from one amp up to the next it doens't get that much louder.

Strummin,

All of your points are accurate and valid. I don't expect the Twin to be 4x louder than the Deluxe, and there is an obvious difference in the headroom of both amps.

It's just that the Twin feels "thin" until about 6-7, unlike the other Fender amps I own. Maybe it's the biasing as someone suggested, I don't know. I don't really know much about what makes tube amps tick, that why I posted the question.

One thing I've just noticed though is that the volume pot comes on slow, that is, there is no sound until about 2-3. Maybe there is an issue with the pot?

Anyways, I'm going to take it back to the tech next week--maybe he originally gave it a crappy once over and didn't pick up on a simple problem/adjustment?

John in San Diego

Hey bro! Just trying to build up a complete picture as you think about things, that's all!!!!

I find that #s are tough to compare since pots are not equal and anyone can change where the # is on the turn.

My tech and I spent about 20 minutes finding the right bias on my DSR. When I first got it back from him I found it to be very boomy and slightly anemic. He had it set in the middle of the range and we ended up going up or down, sorry I can't remember, and then the boom was gone and it was warmer!

[flogstrat]

Strummin, I had a '66 Twin that would peel paint when turned up past 5. I ended up selling it because I could never turn it up enough to get it cooking without worrying about exploding the cats.

So I agree with those that say there is some issue. Sorry I can't be more specific about what it might be.

[JonnyBoy]

the Twin is a hand-wired '65 clone (very clean and well done)

So you are saying the Twin is a hand made clone, not an actual Fender made, off the line product? That does add a variable to the mix, as different components even wired in a similar circuit can cause different tone. Speakers are a huge consideration too, I was playing around with a crate amp yesterday (2x12 SState) that I fixed for my drummer. Playing through its speakers sounded totally different than my 2x12 cab. The same rang true for my TRRI when I removed the stock emmi's and put in speakers with a much higher sensitivity. Another component that can drastically change the tone are the tubes and biasing. That could be the whole issue right there. Good luck, I am sure you will get it singing right soon!

Exploding the cats? That is loud.