[tdub]

I have owned a Lieber American Beauty 09 for less than a year. I love everything about it, quite frankly. The integrity of construction speaks for itself. Rock solid. Very, very playable. Working the higher registers is now a breeze. Basically, tone-wise, the Lieber almost gets you to the finish line. (the fingers are obviously THE big key, too) I originally played the Lieber through a Fender Deluxe re-issue and tone was close, but not quiiiiite there. I feel the element that completed the tone deal was the unbelievably great sounding SMS Garcia modded Preamp from Brad Sarno. Then I went the rest of the way with an gorgeous reconed JBL-K120 in a cabinet from Tracy at Soundscaper, all pushed by a MC250. It is a slightly scaled down setup that is close to what Stu Allen has with DSO. It's great. The highs get that pleasant bell-like Jer tone and the bottoms are fat and snappy lows ala-Jer. All said, yes, the fingers need to do the real work, but the Lieber, Waldo, SMS, Mcintosh, K120 package somehow making the playing and learning curve easier when you can finally hear how close (or far) you are from acheiving the ever elusive "Jerry-ness" in your playing. (all the while, finding your own individual spin and melodies in that format) All said, still a 6k plus investment, but worth every penny for me.

[mijknahs]

Please post pics of your guitar and rig...

[willmusic]

Wow, sounds mighty impressive! Would definitely love to see it!

[keirweir]

If I had the money I would order the Garcia today... Money is just money and if you love somthing your willing to spend for it. Do I have the money no... Will I ever.. no.. but If I did...

[playingdead]

You can order a guitar built by Doug Irwin through Lieber Instruments. His base price begins at $100,000.00

Assuming spending this kind of money is not an issue for you personally, would it be worth the price? Discuss.

[hogan]

Assuming spending this kind of money is not an issue for you personally, would it be worth the price? Discuss.

No. I don't hold Doug Irwin in any high regard as builder. I've seen his work up close and it leaves quite a bit to be desired. 100K is a price that suggests someone is not very interested in building guitars.

[Emoto]

Assuming spending this kind of money is not an issue for you personally, would it be worth the price? Discuss.

No. I don't hold Doug Irwin in any high regard as builder. I've seen his work up close and it leaves quite a bit to be desired. 100K is a price that suggests someone is not very interested in building guitars.

IMHO, the man would have to show new work that dazzled people. If he does that, then one could believe he is back in business. Price will be whatever the market can bear. Personally, I have only mild curiosity in his work.

[strumminsix]

Assuming spending this kind of money is not an issue for you personally, would it be worth the price? Discuss.

No. I don't hold Doug Irwin in any high regard as builder. I've seen his work up close and it leaves quite a bit to be desired. 100K is a price that suggests someone is not very interested in building guitars.

+1

[JonnyBoy]

Assuming spending this kind of money is not an issue for you personally, would it be worth the price? Discuss.

No. I don't hold Doug Irwin in any high regard as builder. I've seen his work up close and it leaves quite a bit to be desired. 100K is a price that suggests someone is not very interested in building guitars.

I assume you mean post Garcia "Quality Bar", but a pre Garcia build. After Garcia, The bar was raised a thousand notches in terms of what's expected in a hand made guitar, especially for guys like us. I think a lot of his instruments before Garcia, were not super high dollar guitars. His interviews stated that Tiger was above and beyond anything he ever contemplated making, the Zenith of his knowledge and expertise. Today, the standard dead head guitar from a private luthier has to have all the same Tiger bells and whistles to be considered higher quality, but there was no such bar back then, or a market either. Are we comparing the "Alembic" styled wood construction, Strat, Les paul, something in between?
He quoted prices in an interview to be around $800 in the mid 70's which would translate to a $1500 guitar today, so he did have a bunch of relatively "cheap" hand made guitars he made over the years, and I'm sure sold high dollar later on only because of who he is after Garcia, no fault there. I too have mixed feelings about the man and the whole story he carries, but this is the same man that made Garcia's guitars. And IMO may be unfair to judge him on work that may be in a different context then Garcia or his sound. Maybe you are comparing his version of a "Strat" to an actual Strat, I dunno, I assume you are comparing his "Strat" to a tiger, I can't imagine him making a crappy guitar when it counts???.
I agree $100K is a price saying, " I don't build guitars anymore". Its just plain excessive, again, my opinion. Thomas has a fair price for a celeb name and quality level. But Irwin did make some guitars that were masterpieces, and we all try to copy the guitars years later.
I don't know if you are comparing a post Garcia Tiger replica he made for wealthy fans at a hefty price tag, or one of his guitars he made over the years? The guitar you saw could have been a budget model once valued at a few hundred dollars in his shop pre Garcia and was not made in any context to the Grateful Dead? I am not disagreeing with you, angry or standing up for the man, I am only wondering your comparison context?
---Peace, Jon

[hogan]

I'm talking about Irwin's guitars he built for Garcia.

[JonnyBoy]

No kidding. Ha! I can see how rosebud would be a letdown after tiger, he didn't put as much time into it and charged more. but Tiger? That thing is inlaid like a tattooed Hells Angel. Interesting.

What was missing on those guitars for you?

[brutusbuck45]

No kidding. Ha! I can see how rosebud would be a letdown after tiger, he didn't put as much time into it and charged more. but Tiger? That thing is inlaid like a tattooed Hells Angel. Interesting.

What was missing on those guitars for you?

JB-

Maybe you missed this thread (below). Start from the beginning of it if you want, but this direct link documents Waldo's, Andrew Olsen's and Matt Moriarty's RRHOF discoveries.

http://www.rukind.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... =30#p65635

[JonnyBoy]

I see what you all mean, but Irwin's choice of construction was at fault not his hands.

That one line on the back binding, I agree it was a dumb thing for Irwin to try to line up independent lines/bindings on independent pieces of wood that have to be set right, above and beyond bindings, but they're not lining up could be from many other reasons like wood swell, bending, shrinking etc...Which happens more than not working on wood projects. He should have know that was a long shot to work out in the first place. The front "Large" binding near the fret board was not meant to line up anyway and it does look bad too, like it was a screw up.


Bolt didn't try to line in any separate wood bindings like the neck set. That's extremely hard to do since you have to set the neck at a specific angle first, then worry about bindings second. Irwin should have lost the neck binding OR applied it later then it would look "perfect" and his work would be shoddy to everyone. As for the inlays, bolt only had dots, and a simpler "Bolt" cavity cover. They are in different inlay "leagues" in my opinion. The more complex cuts the inlay needs, the harder it is to look good, especially if you are trying to make it look better as you work on it and mess it up further. As for fret markers, Circles don't need to be hand cut,thus easy to be made "perfect" with a drill mortise. I don't really have a fighting opinion on how good the inlays are on Rose since naked eye views are better for judging, but Bolt wasn't near as fancy.

Again, just looking at the facts, not trying to say your wrong. I think Irwin's design choice to line up independent lines made his guitar look worse, but that doesn't mean he didn't make the guitar correctly. For some of the light wood that stained different on the end on rose, that's the bane of every carpenter and cant be helped sometimes. It could have matched perfect during construction, then after cutting further into it and the final sand a natural flaw occurred in color tone. He may have told Jerry and asked what he wants to do about it, like many carpenters do, otherwise we have to start over again. It was also mentioned that Cripe did a better job lining up wood bindings but he didn't even attempt to what Irwin did, so yes it looks cleaner to the scrutinizing eye. Again we are discussing OPINIONS something not worth getting angry about. You can see the design differences here:

http://www.cripeguitars.com/bolt.html

[strumminsix]

I see what you all mean, but Irwin's choice of construction was at fault not his hands.

That one line on the back binding, I agree it was a dumb thing for Irwin to try to line up independent lines/bindings on independent pieces of wood that have to be set right, above and beyond bindings, but they're not lining up could be from many other reasons like wood swell, bending, shrinking etc...Which happens more than not working on wood projects. He should have know that was a long shot to work out in the first place. The front "Large" binding near the fret board was not meant to line up anyway and it does look bad too, like it was a screw up.


Bolt didn't try to line in any separate wood bindings like the neck set. That's extremely hard to do since you have to set the neck at a specific angle first, then worry about bindings second. Irwin should have lost the neck binding OR applied it later then it would look "perfect" and his work would be shoddy to everyone. As for the inlays, bolt only had dots, and a simpler "Bolt" cavity cover. They are in different inlay "leagues" in my opinion. The more complex cuts the inlay needs, the harder it is to look good, especially if you are trying to make it look better as you work on it and mess it up further. As for fret markers, Circles don't need to be hand cut,thus easy to be made "perfect" with a drill mortise. I don't really have a fighting opinion on how good the inlays are on Rose since naked eye views are better for judging, but Bolt wasn't near as fancy.

Again, just looking at the facts, not trying to say your wrong. I think Irwin's design choice to line up independent lines made his guitar look worse, but that doesn't mean he didn't make the guitar correctly. For some of the light wood that stained different on the end on rose, that's the bane of every carpenter and cant be helped sometimes. It could have matched perfect during construction, then after cutting further into it and the final sand a natural flaw occurred in color tone. He may have told Jerry and asked what he wants to do about it, like many carpenters do, otherwise we have to start over again. It was also mentioned that Cripe did a better job lining up wood bindings but he didn't even attempt to what Irwin did, so yes it looks cleaner to the scrutinizing eye. Again we are discussing OPINIONS something not worth getting angry about. You can see the design differences here:

http://www.cripeguitars.com/bolt.html

Dude, really, stop and think. The dude said 100,000 for one of his guitars and his work is not perfect. Construction doesn't line up and his electronics, IIRC, were overhauled too.

[JonnyBoy]

I know, agreed, enough said. Bolt had to be rewired too. I wonder if the guitars showed up non wired in the first place since Garcia was so picky about his electronics?