[erock]

That is not the same Ben Linus of the island.

Right. It is the alternate timeline where things are different after the plane lands in LA. Did anyone see Michael Emerson (Ben) on Kimmel last night? He said that his teacher story is not done and has an important role to play in the end.

Not entirely true either. I know they say on pop-up lost, 'this is a flash-sideways; what would happen if the plane landed safely in LAX'

But that's not what it going on there. The plane is filled with different people and each person is different:
- Boone's sister is not on board
- Hurley feels lucky
- Jack has a mysterious cut
- Rose is not a nervous wreck

It's not just if the plan landed.

some people seem to think that this flash sideways is kind of like a a thank you to the people who helped Jacob(or who ever) as a thank you. there are many people whose lives are better than they were. such as Hurley, and Sawyer. Locke is also very different in this reality as well.

[strumminsix]

some people seem to think that this flash sideways is kind of like a a thank you to the people who helped Jacob(or who ever) as a thank you. there are many people whose lives are better than they were. such as Hurley, and Sawyer. Locke is also very different in this reality as well.

Not quite sure how that theory is supported at all. Not saying it's impossible but just not seeing anything that would support it. In fact there is tons of info to support that the flash-sideways is more likely, to me, as how events would have played out if Jacob never "touched" them and the island didn't exist. Which we do know that the island was not in existence as shown in the opening scene of the flash-sideways with it being under water.

[erock]

some people seem to think that this flash sideways is kind of like a a thank you to the people who helped Jacob(or who ever) as a thank you. there are many people whose lives are better than they were. such as Hurley, and Sawyer. Locke is also very different in this reality as well.

Not quite sure how that theory is supported at all. Not saying it's impossible but just not seeing anything that would support it. In fact there is tons of info to support that the flash-sideways is more likely, to me, as how events would have played out if Jacob never "touched" them and the island didn't exist. Which we do know that the island was not in existence as shown in the opening scene of the flash-sideways with it being under water.

But Ben's dad said something like you know, I wonder what life would be like if we never left that island. so the island did exists, it's just in that timeline swan wasn't built and thus Desmond not hitting the button didn't make the plane crash. I think there is playing around with that timeline as it would appear ben wouldn't have been shot, because he still has his innocence a bit.

i'm confusing myself now. I need to study for my PhD in theoretical timetravel

[strumminsix]

some people seem to think that this flash sideways is kind of like a a thank you to the people who helped Jacob(or who ever) as a thank you. there are many people whose lives are better than they were. such as Hurley, and Sawyer. Locke is also very different in this reality as well.

Not quite sure how that theory is supported at all. Not saying it's impossible but just not seeing anything that would support it. In fact there is tons of info to support that the flash-sideways is more likely, to me, as how events would have played out if Jacob never "touched" them and the island didn't exist. Which we do know that the island was not in existence as shown in the opening scene of the flash-sideways with it being under water.

But Ben's dad said something like you know, I wonder what life would be like if we never left that island. so the island did exists, it's just in that timeline swan wasn't built and thus Desmond not hitting the button didn't make the plane crash. I think there is playing around with that timeline as it would appear ben wouldn't have been shot, because he still has his innocence a bit.

i'm confusing myself now. I need to study for my PhD in theoretical timetravel

Ben's dad said never WENT to the island. So yes, it did exist at some point in the 70s. But was no longer there in the 2000s.
We don't really have enough info to know for sure what was built or when or why it was underwater yet...

BUT!!! I love your theory on Ben not being shot, spring'd and loss of innocence which is the first GREAT theory I've heard on this flash-sideways!!! WOW!! COOL!

[keirweir]

Richard!!!!!!

Can't wait to get his story.

[strumminsix]

Richard!!!!!!

Can't wait to get his story.

same!

[Tennessee Jedi]

[NashvilleMike]

Best episode ever!

[strumminsix]

Best episode ever!

This season for me! loved how it was a character's back-story vs. alt reality!

[Tennessee Jedi]

The wife is not happy w/the religious overtones. I think she wanted it to go in a X Files direction ....
She says its Miltons Paradise Lost - a story that has good and bad angels ... temptations .... heaven n hell ....
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/readin ... ndex.shtml
I am fine with the good vs Evil ( but like does Jacob really have to wear white and Smokie wear Black ?) ...
I think we will see more of the characters from previous seasons pop up more soon
I hope Richard stays a good guy.
It was a great episode

[strumminsix]

The wife is not happy w/the religious overtones. I think she wanted it to go in a X Files direction ....
She says its Miltons Paradise Lost - a story that has good and bad angels ... temptations .... heaven n hell ....
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/readin ... ndex.shtml
I am fine with the good vs Evil ( but like does Jacob really have to wear white and Smokie wear Black ?) ...
I think we will see more of the characters from previous seasons pop up more soon
I hope Richard stays a good guy.
It was a great episode

The wife shoulda seen this coming a long time ago. "Redemption" has been a central theme on this show since season 1 and is a major tenant in all major religions as is hell. I've had this discussion with other folks too have had the same POV as your wife. It's not religion, though, it is faith.

I personally think that story line was fabulous. Why else would a person who lost the love of his life never want to die except believing 100% that he his fate would be hell and needed more time for redemption?!

[Tennessee Jedi]

Well she has seen it coming but was still holding out hope that it would be like all X files ...
The redemption theme is a good one
At the end Isabella tells Richardo to kill Smokie
He knows murder is wrong
I was hoping Sayid was gonna turn to the good side ....
What of the Ben /Richard / Widmore relationship ?

[Crazy 9.5 Fingers]

Yeah, awesome episode. Paradise Lost is a great parallel as well. I also agree, did it have to be so obvious that you have the guy in whote vs. the guy in black? That is why I wonder if maybe Jacob isn't necessarily the good guy. Just seemed like it is too obvious, I dunno.

Love how hard core the show has gotten. When the pirate guy was stabbing all of the slave/prisoners on the boat while they were chained up, well that was hard core shit. A couple weeks ago we had Claire axe that guy in the chest. Sayid drowning Dogen, shit was cold.

I guess it has always been like this but I appreciate it and thematically it seems they are trying to show how evil operates and manifests itself.

[NashvilleMike]

Love how hard core the show has gotten. When the pirate guy was stabbing all of the slave/prisoners on the boat while they were chained up, well that was hard core shit. A couple weeks ago we had Claire axe that guy in the chest. Sayid drowning Dogen, shit was cold.

Not to mention the pig chomping on that body.

"Redemption" has been a central theme on this show since season 1 and is a major tenant in all major religions as is hell. I've had this discussion with other folks too have had the same POV as your wife. It's not religion, though, it is faith.

This is one of the big reasons I love this show. Everyone in the world tangles with redemption, more than faith it almost a measure of humanity. Like in Star Trek 2 when Spock sacrificed himself and Kirk described him as "...the most human". To explain...Could any organism achive higher intelligence and not struggle with the subject of redemption? Having no non human examples of higher intelligence to draw from I went to Star Trek.

[ronster]

At the end Isabella tells Richardo to kill Smokie

Actually Hurley tells Richard that she said for him to do it. I don't recall Izbell telling Hurley, did she?