I can't speak to the Deluxe, so I probably can't be very helpful here. I have a Hot Rod Deluxe with a drive channel, but the drive channel is so mushy I wouldn't use it. Bobby's sound is very clean and not at all mushy, so it seems like you want the amp to just start to break up.
I'm eager to see what people think of Bobby's sound because it's not easy for me to get either. It's clean, sharp, and metallic. Not a lot of low end either.
I also thought I recall seeing Bobby using a Vox lately. Maybe he's dialing in some of that Vox chime. (Probably wouldn't help with a Fender amp given the different power tubes...)
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Another jonnyboy. Welcome 
. To get a weir sound in the modern age requires a lot of effects that weir enjoyed messing with. I am a lead guitarist, so I haven't studied it, but I know near the end of Healey's time mixing the dead he, incorrectly and wrongfully tried to fix Weir's compressed, reverb'd, chorused sound, usually by mixing him low and messing with his effects at the board. Healey thought it sounded shitty, i guess but that wasn't his call. I hear compresson, sometimes flange and chorus, reverb and once you have that, the other 95% is technique. He has an incredible technique for filling in the gaps in weir'd time sigs, sustained slide, hit and run chords and rhythm licks. He use to practice playing in these time sigs with a metronome. Read Dozin's (dozin.com) interview with weir on his gear page and it will give you some basics to his approach. Waldo may have a few tidbits to read too. Weir also had a lot of expensive gear. IMO, one can sound like bob more by learning technique going through an acoustic then not knowing much about his technique and using his very own gear on stage. Good luck bro, he is an awesome guitarist to emulate. I have much more respect for him as a guitarist as I try to get these dead songs to sound good in our band by working with a rhythm guitarist that doesn't know much about his style.
. To get a weir sound in the modern age requires a lot of effects that weir enjoyed messing with. I am a lead guitarist, so I haven't studied it, but I know near the end of Healey's time mixing the dead he, incorrectly and wrongfully tried to fix Weir's compressed, reverb'd, chorused sound, usually by mixing him low and messing with his effects at the board. Healey thought it sounded shitty, i guess but that wasn't his call. I hear compresson, sometimes flange and chorus, reverb and once you have that, the other 95% is technique. He has an incredible technique for filling in the gaps in weir'd time sigs, sustained slide, hit and run chords and rhythm licks. He use to practice playing in these time sigs with a metronome. Read Dozin's (dozin.com) interview with weir on his gear page and it will give you some basics to his approach. Waldo may have a few tidbits to read too. Weir also had a lot of expensive gear. IMO, one can sound like bob more by learning technique going through an acoustic then not knowing much about his technique and using his very own gear on stage. Good luck bro, he is an awesome guitarist to emulate. I have much more respect for him as a guitarist as I try to get these dead songs to sound good in our band by working with a rhythm guitarist that doesn't know much about his style. http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
Flatwound strings, mild chorus, some compression, short delays, and plenty of technique. An Ibanez flanger pedal used subtly may achieve an even better Weir-like "chorus" sound. I believe that many mistake his use of the flanger effect for chorus. Some of the Weir-Heads here can clarify.
Brad
Brad
... and it's just like any other day that's ever been...
I find most of the people who try to emulate Weir, over play. He was a very sparse player, most imitators aren't.
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Flatwound strings, mild chorus, some compression, short delays, and plenty of technique. An Ibanez flanger pedal used subtly may achieve an even better Weir-like "chorus" sound. I believe that many mistake his use of the flanger effect for chorus. Some of the Weir-Heads here can clarify.YES! I find that a comp/limiter is better than the guitar comp. Pickups out of phase is another key piece where many folks think he's using a pedal.
High Peaks wrote:I find most of the people who try to emulate Weir, over play. He was a very sparse player, most imitators aren't.Very much agreed.
Bottom lines to tone, IMO: figure out how to drop most of your bass while still sounding full and strong low-mids, keep your volume consistent as you switch between humbuckers to single or out of phase, and proper placement in the band mix.
RIght hand palm muting!!!
Brad
Brad
... and it's just like any other day that's ever been...
THANKS Everyone, very helpful tips. What are out of phase pickups, and a Comp/Limiter?
I'm a rhythm player and I've been chasin that sound for a while myself. It's hard to define exactly what that is, since he's had so many variations, but I think there are principles that carry over through the years. Here's my thoughts on the subject, please correct me if any of this is off-base.
It seems to me like he would often use a (very) subtle flanger effect as part of his base tone (like from the ibanez ue rack unit he used for a while) to give some extra shimmer and character to the sound. I imagine the circuitry of the pedal flanger Ibanez makes isn't too far off from that, but I haven't tried it yet myself. I'd really like to know what he's using nowadays because there's a really unique effect that kinda sounds makes him sound like chains jangling around. It sounds kinda like a flanger to me but at the same time it's like nothing I've ever heard from a guitar effect.
I hear a subtle compression, although most compression pedals don't really come close to that sound. I agree it's probably more of a limiter effect rather than the effect of an regular compression effect going on. I'd like to hear from someone who's had experience with "limiter" guitar pedals (I know MXR makes one, which I've heard is a pretty cool unit).
It think he also EQs out some of the lowest bass frequencies to keep all the heaviness and mud out, although running pickups out of phase would tend to cancel out these frequencies as well. That makes it so that when he does utilize some distortion, the bass frequencies don't distort so it's a more crisp, orderly distortion.
It seems to me like he would often use a (very) subtle flanger effect as part of his base tone (like from the ibanez ue rack unit he used for a while) to give some extra shimmer and character to the sound. I imagine the circuitry of the pedal flanger Ibanez makes isn't too far off from that, but I haven't tried it yet myself. I'd really like to know what he's using nowadays because there's a really unique effect that kinda sounds makes him sound like chains jangling around. It sounds kinda like a flanger to me but at the same time it's like nothing I've ever heard from a guitar effect.
I hear a subtle compression, although most compression pedals don't really come close to that sound. I agree it's probably more of a limiter effect rather than the effect of an regular compression effect going on. I'd like to hear from someone who's had experience with "limiter" guitar pedals (I know MXR makes one, which I've heard is a pretty cool unit).
It think he also EQs out some of the lowest bass frequencies to keep all the heaviness and mud out, although running pickups out of phase would tend to cancel out these frequencies as well. That makes it so that when he does utilize some distortion, the bass frequencies don't distort so it's a more crisp, orderly distortion.
JohnyBoy wrote:THANKS Everyone, very helpful tips. What are out of phase pickups, and a Comp/Limiter?gotta do some searches, amigo. these have been discussed alot here.
steveo - my rack has a limiter/com -> what do you wanna know?
Strummin, which unit do you use? Do you use a flanger too?
Oh and btw to answer your question johnyboy, out of phase pickups basically means you reverse the polarity of two pickups running simultaneously...I guess what it does is cause the signal to combine in such a way that cancels out certain frequencies, particularly the bass frequencies, so you get a very thin, trebly sound.
Oh and btw to answer your question johnyboy, out of phase pickups basically means you reverse the polarity of two pickups running simultaneously...I guess what it does is cause the signal to combine in such a way that cancels out certain frequencies, particularly the bass frequencies, so you get a very thin, trebly sound.
High Peaks wrote:I find most of the people who try to emulate Weir, over play. He was a very sparse player, most imitators aren't.I object!!
Most Weir imitators aren't fortunate enough to have Garcia on one side, Lesh on the other and Billy driving the bus.
Of course generalities can be made about the other GD members imitators as well, but we are all just doing the best we can
Don't forget the AF-9
Kevin
(Overplaying Weir freak)
The key to my Weir sound is phase reversal, however, the phase reversal is within the same pickup, not between two pickups. More specifically, I use only the bridge pickup. It's a two coil pickup (just like any humbucker), however, it has a 3-way switch: (1) standard series humbucker (2) single coil and (3) phase reversal. In the phase reversal setting, the (+) and (-) of one of the coils are reversed so the signal from the two coils are now out of phase with each other. Yes, it's a thin sound, and it's not humbucking.
To recap:
humbucking: guitar signal from two coils is added, single coil noise is cancelled
phase-reversal: guitar signal from two coils is cancelled, single coil noise is added
To help alleviate the noise issue, I installed a 'dummy' coil. It's reverse wound, however, it has no magnet, therefore, it picks up only the single coil noise but no guitar signal. Since it's reverse wound, the noise cancels against the noise picked up by the phase-reversal setting.
Got it?
mk
To recap:
humbucking: guitar signal from two coils is added, single coil noise is cancelled
phase-reversal: guitar signal from two coils is cancelled, single coil noise is added
To help alleviate the noise issue, I installed a 'dummy' coil. It's reverse wound, however, it has no magnet, therefore, it picks up only the single coil noise but no guitar signal. Since it's reverse wound, the noise cancels against the noise picked up by the phase-reversal setting.
Got it?
mk
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Stevo123 wrote:Strummin, which unit do you use? Do you use a flanger too?Steve, below is a shot of my rig. Contents (in order)
Oh and btw to answer your question johnyboy, out of phase pickups basically means you reverse the polarity of two pickups running simultaneously...I guess what it does is cause the signal to combine in such a way that cancels out certain frequencies, particularly the bass frequencies, so you get a very thin, trebly sound.
1 - Presonus Eureka - studio comp/limiter w/para EQ
2 - Serrano Picosso - clean boost
3 - Emma Discumbobulator - envelope
4 - Barber LTD SR - flat eq overdrive
5 - Maxon PH-350 - rotary phaser
6 - cmatmods deeelay - digital delay (but the dry stays analog, iirc)
7 - open
8 - korg tuner
The PH350 is the ticket for my needs! It's not for everyone, though. It is it envelopes like a phaser, watery like a flanger and swirly like a rotary.
