Well I usually dont choose this to listen to but I think its my favorite part of the shows that I saw. I just heard the best Space>Wheel . I was again reminded of why Garcia is just plain incredible. I really think there is alot of overlooked, or even dare I say "misunderstood" Dead Jams. So in that spirit, lets talk about D/S. What you like about it, what you dont. I love it and will revisit it again and agian!
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drums>space for me has always been really mood oriented, im either into listening to one or im not. that said there aare definatly some that interest me more than others such as dp 32 for instance.
Some are phenomenal, but it usually signaled a piss break for me.
Evidently, Furthur aren't doing it.
Evidently, Furthur aren't doing it.
Seems like I've been here before...
The Road's Facebook Page (including links to tunage) is here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Road/ ... 200?ref=nf
The Road's Facebook Page (including links to tunage) is here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Road/ ... 200?ref=nf
.
Last edited by RiverRat on Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Drums>Space were ALWAYS more fun with vitamin A.
It all rolls into one and nothing comes for free
There's nothing you can hold for very long
And when you hear that song come crying like the wind
It seems like all this life was just a dream
There's nothing you can hold for very long
And when you hear that song come crying like the wind
It seems like all this life was just a dream
FWIW, according to Healy in his book, D/S come along mostly as a means for the band to go backstage and re-up, so it was meant to be a break of sorts born out of their habits.
I think, in general, that the years when DarkStar was put away ( essentially 81-89), the D/S segment seemed to be most relevent as a "piece" rather than just a piss break. If you check out 82-88, they played a lot of Birdsong, Cassidy, MNS, PITB, etc. which I always viewed as having been more "elevated" into that slot of "opening the tripping doors" when DStar was gone. Especially BSong IMHO.
There's always gonna be certain D/Ss that people would favor in any given year, but I'd suggest really checking out D/S from
88-89---I believe that's when the drummers really got midi-fied and the Drums were not to be pissed on in general. Also, there were lots of shows in 94 where JG stayed out extra long and played with the drummers before leaving. I think that was also the period when Bruce's idea of breaking down into trios was happening...Phil talks about it some and features some excerpts in his CD that comes with his book. Seemed to bring about some very cool music....perhaps the best stuff of most of those sub-par shows.
I'm not surprised they're not doing it this tour as they're likely not needing to re-up anymore as in the past and they can use the time for better music than what D/S often brings about.
just my 2 cents.
I think, in general, that the years when DarkStar was put away ( essentially 81-89), the D/S segment seemed to be most relevent as a "piece" rather than just a piss break. If you check out 82-88, they played a lot of Birdsong, Cassidy, MNS, PITB, etc. which I always viewed as having been more "elevated" into that slot of "opening the tripping doors" when DStar was gone. Especially BSong IMHO.
There's always gonna be certain D/Ss that people would favor in any given year, but I'd suggest really checking out D/S from
88-89---I believe that's when the drummers really got midi-fied and the Drums were not to be pissed on in general. Also, there were lots of shows in 94 where JG stayed out extra long and played with the drummers before leaving. I think that was also the period when Bruce's idea of breaking down into trios was happening...Phil talks about it some and features some excerpts in his CD that comes with his book. Seemed to bring about some very cool music....perhaps the best stuff of most of those sub-par shows.
I'm not surprised they're not doing it this tour as they're likely not needing to re-up anymore as in the past and they can use the time for better music than what D/S often brings about.
just my 2 cents.
Every now and then I'm listening to a show and it is running its course and the D/S will really hold something unique that makes my ears perk up. This phenomenon also depends on my mind set during listening though.
Off the top of my head, 12/30/82 has a really nice space. The Space > Wheel is one of my favorites... 7/13/84, the Dark Star show, has a great one of these
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1982-1 ... eok.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1984-0 ... eok.flac16
Something else I've noticed about Drums/Space segments is that there is a trend for Drums segment to be quite short when the overall show is a hot one. Sometimes there is barely a drums and you can tell the band is just itching to play!
For example, the night after the Dark Star show, http://www.archive.org/details/gd84-07- ... sbeok.shnf , there is practically no drum segment and it results in a fantastically trippy Space.
The shows in early '78 were very high energy, even though Jerry doesn't sing at most of them... http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-0 ... eok.flac16
This one has a drum segment lasting only 2:33... and a hot show it is The Let It Grow is one of the best post-hiatus that these ears have heard.
I would love to hear more suggestions for great space segments... especially for great Space > The Wheel transitions
Off the top of my head, 12/30/82 has a really nice space. The Space > Wheel is one of my favorites... 7/13/84, the Dark Star show, has a great one of these
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1982-1 ... eok.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1984-0 ... eok.flac16
Something else I've noticed about Drums/Space segments is that there is a trend for Drums segment to be quite short when the overall show is a hot one. Sometimes there is barely a drums and you can tell the band is just itching to play!
For example, the night after the Dark Star show, http://www.archive.org/details/gd84-07- ... sbeok.shnf , there is practically no drum segment and it results in a fantastically trippy Space.
The shows in early '78 were very high energy, even though Jerry doesn't sing at most of them... http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-0 ... eok.flac16
This one has a drum segment lasting only 2:33... and a hot show it is
The Let It Grow is one of the best post-hiatus that these ears have heard.I would love to hear more suggestions for great space segments... especially for great Space > The Wheel transitions
a whole new gameball
re:
Space> the Wheel
Always loved the wheel best out of space as opposed to later, anyway I really like the 8/28/82 Oregon show (10th anniversary springfield creamery benefit )
in regards to space in general, I think it has to be specified in what you are looking for out of "Space". Some people prefer the weirdness of sounds when they are making weird noises. Others prefer the ones that are more traditional instrument wise but are a springboard for musical inprov.
To me different tours had different "Space properties"
For example here are a couple tours from the mid 80's which in my opinion had unique and INTERESTING spaces:
Fall of '83: the spaces were generally real musical duets between Bobby and Jerry where there was very little "weirdness" just straight up fantastic improv duets between two inventive players.
Check out both "spaces" before the 2 East Coast ST Stephens (MSG 10/11/83 , hartford 10/15/83..hartford is my preferred one for space) they are just Bobby and Jerry weaving their way through a myriad of muscial themes effortlessly; Unspoken musical communication at its finest.
Summer of "85:
The tour of the "jungle space": lots of jungle sounds and screeching monkeys and all that, but still pretty "muscial" spaces. Summer 85 spaces were dense and intense.
Fall '90: When Hornsby and Vince first joined, the band got to know each other musically through playing together in Space. Listen to the spaces of the fall 90 MSG run: Incredible!
(also listen to the pre-drums segment from that same rum, it was like they were doing a space before and after drums every night!)
There were many tours where space was just a pretty boring run through and you could tell that the band felt that way too, but on tours where the band was musically engaged, space could be the best part of the show.
Also, when you latch on to a space that you like, try listening to a space from the shows immediately before and after. Then listen to other spaces from the tour. Then listen to the spaces from the whole tour in sequence, there is often thematic development that continues night after night, where the space they start is a continuation from a theme they developed the night before and on and on and on...it is really cool.
It is like a whole tours worth of spaces is actually just one long space! (in the sea of hypnocracy the shore is yet another wave
Space> the Wheel
Always loved the wheel best out of space as opposed to later, anyway I really like the 8/28/82 Oregon show (10th anniversary springfield creamery benefit )
in regards to space in general, I think it has to be specified in what you are looking for out of "Space". Some people prefer the weirdness of sounds when they are making weird noises. Others prefer the ones that are more traditional instrument wise but are a springboard for musical inprov.
To me different tours had different "Space properties"
For example here are a couple tours from the mid 80's which in my opinion had unique and INTERESTING spaces:
Fall of '83: the spaces were generally real musical duets between Bobby and Jerry where there was very little "weirdness" just straight up fantastic improv duets between two inventive players.
Check out both "spaces" before the 2 East Coast ST Stephens (MSG 10/11/83 , hartford 10/15/83..hartford is my preferred one for space) they are just Bobby and Jerry weaving their way through a myriad of muscial themes effortlessly; Unspoken musical communication at its finest.
Summer of "85:
The tour of the "jungle space": lots of jungle sounds and screeching monkeys and all that, but still pretty "muscial" spaces. Summer 85 spaces were dense and intense.
Fall '90: When Hornsby and Vince first joined, the band got to know each other musically through playing together in Space. Listen to the spaces of the fall 90 MSG run: Incredible!
(also listen to the pre-drums segment from that same rum, it was like they were doing a space before and after drums every night!)
There were many tours where space was just a pretty boring run through and you could tell that the band felt that way too, but on tours where the band was musically engaged, space could be the best part of the show.
Also, when you latch on to a space that you like, try listening to a space from the shows immediately before and after. Then listen to other spaces from the tour. Then listen to the spaces from the whole tour in sequence, there is often thematic development that continues night after night, where the space they start is a continuation from a theme they developed the night before and on and on and on...it is really cool.
It is like a whole tours worth of spaces is actually just one long space! (in the sea of hypnocracy the shore is yet another wave
.......................................................have you heard the one about the yellow dog?
JeffM stated a lot of salient points,
Space in 1982 was glorious, and I think in 1980/81 space jams was where the dead learned to improvise again like the early seventies.
Also the 1983 Hartford he mentions I remember walking to the furthest place from stage during it, and Bobby and Jerry were so tight, I was scratching my head thinking "it don't get any better than this".
Space is space which is one thing and jam out of space is another.
One highpoint of space/jam is the solo Jerry jam in Oregon where he riffs on Close Encounters, classic
Space in 1982 was glorious, and I think in 1980/81 space jams was where the dead learned to improvise again like the early seventies.
Also the 1983 Hartford he mentions I remember walking to the furthest place from stage during it, and Bobby and Jerry were so tight, I was scratching my head thinking "it don't get any better than this".
Space is space which is one thing and jam out of space is another.
One highpoint of space/jam is the solo Jerry jam in Oregon where he riffs on Close Encounters, classic
astroman99 wrote:One highpoint of space/jam is the solo Jerry jam in Oregon where he riffs on Close Encounters, classic1/22/78 Eugene ... the next "CE3K" tease I like even better (attendance bias?), and occurred just a few miles from the Muncie, Indiana setting of the first half of the movie: 7/15/89
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
tigerstrat wrote:astroman99 wrote:One highpoint of space/jam is the solo Jerry jam in Oregon where he riffs on Close Encounters, classic1/22/78 Eugene ... the next "CE3K" tease I like even better (attendance bias?), and occurred just a few miles from the Muncie, Indiana setting of the first half of the movie: 7/15/89
I was at that first Deer Creek show too TS. so I am partial to that Close Encounters as well
That was a fantastic space with Jer playing a lot of the Midi stuff that was so new then, I remember that he tried to continue using the midi guitar into China Doll and ran into a huge problem and had to switch mid song, do you remember that TS, or is it another one of my memories that may or may not have occured due to my altered state
.......................................................have you heard the one about the yellow dog?
come on guys... I am al for being partial to a show I attended, I think I have heard the Deer creek show...
but come on...
The Mothership landed @ the Eugene show
Did it not?
but come on...
The Mothership landed @ the Eugene show
Did it not?
astroman99 wrote:come on guys... I am al for being partial to a show I attended, I think I have heard the Deer creek show...
but come on...
The Mothership landed @ the Eugene show
Did it not?
I will say this..........If I had a time machine and could pick to be at either show it would have been the '78 one.
.......................................................have you heard the one about the yellow dog?
jdsmodulus wrote:Eugene+daytime+D/S=BLISS!daytime? The June '78 Eugene show certainly was.... but at the Field House in January too?
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia