[Jimkkc]

I really enjoyed the heck out of this show - yes, Ratdog played a bunch of dead, but at this point, I don't care; I really don't. I say, more power to Bobby and the dog, particularly when Mark jam the bejeesus out of the end of Half-Step!

Can someone tell me what is so gosh-darn interesting about String Cheese? I felt ripped off that half my ticket cost went to SCI! I'm not trying to start anything, but listening to SCI last nite made me realize (once again) that the dead had the songs - and it is the songs that are important. Any wanker band can get up and jam on the same riff for hours, but it is the songs that make things interesting. After a year and half of the Jam-on Channel on Sirius and listening to the multitude of "jam bands" I have to say, there isn't one that comes close to the dead, why? The songs - even 36 years after Truckin' was written, it still pulls people in on a cool Kansas City evening whereas, it seems very few were pulled into the "rave" of SCI. Advice for those seeing the rest of the Ratdog tour - stay in the lot until SCI is done - they are only going to bore you to tears (that is unless you like the sounds of NYC nite club Raves) On the other hand, here is a vote for Bobby! As the song says "All good things and all good times" the dog has certainly come to life.

[wisedyes]

Not too familiar with SCI, but I'll agree with you on the main point of your post. What set the Dead apart from the other jam bands ( as well as the Allmans and Little Feat, imho )is that the jams start with great songs first.

That's why I was never able to get into Phish when they first started out; their songs weren't very good, and sort of just seemed like excuses to jam. By the time they got to be goo songwriters, I had lost interest. Of course, truth be told, I have a hard time listening to very much pre-Workingman's era Dead, too.

[shakedown_04092]

Can someone tell me what is so gosh-darn interesting about String Cheese? I felt ripped off that half my ticket cost went to SCI! I'm not trying to start anything, but listening to SCI last nite made me realize (once again) that the dead had the songs - and it is the songs that are important. Any wanker band can get up and jam on the same riff for hours, but it is the songs that make things interesting. After a year and half of the Jam-on Channel on Sirius and listening to the multitude of "jam bands" I have to say, there isn't one that comes close to the dead, why? The songs - even 36 years after Truckin' was written, it still pulls people in on a cool Kansas City evening whereas, it seems very few were pulled into the "rave" of SCI. Advice for those seeing the rest of the Ratdog tour - stay in the lot until SCI is done - they are only going to bore you to tears (that is unless you like the sounds of NYC nite club Raves) On the other hand, here is a vote for Bobby! As the song says "All good things and all good times" the dog has certainly come to life.

Man, I couldn't disagree with you more. I don't want to tell you to expand your horizons or anything like that, but SCI is a GREAT band, and IMO, they are the best touring band out there right now. They are innovative, creative, and aren't afraid to step outside the box to find something to use to their advantage.

No, it's not the GD. But that's on purpose. Nobody out there playing wants to be the GD or be compared to the GD (for the most part). They want to go out and make their OWN sound. SCI is a mix of jamgrass, rock n' roll, jazz, trance, and probably a few other types of music that I'm leaving out. And they are very good at what they do.

They have some great songs, like the GD does.

I would NEVER EVER EVER give the advice to "stay in the parking lot until they are done", though. Let someone make that opinion for themselves. Music is an experience in itself, and everybody takes it differently. See them a few times before you make your final judgement on them, though. They are good, and when Phil & Bob are gone, they'll be the ones taking over the scene.

Some of the songs I might reccomend listenening to are:

Best Feeling (a Keller Williams cover)Sirens
Barstool
Mrs. Brown's Teahouse
Texas
Howard
Rollover
Black Clouds
100 Year Flood
On The Road
Rivertrance
Shantytown
Born On The Wrong Planet
Wake Up
San Jose
Jellyfish
Sing A New Song
Joyful Sound
Close Your Eyes
Search
Smile
And they do great versions of Naive Melody, Midnight Moonlight, Sittin On Top Of The World, Hey Pocky Way, and Panama Red, among others.

[Jimkkc]

If SCI takes over the scene when Phil and Bobby are gone, then I'm turning in my card! All I can say is that the only other show that bored me worse than SCI was Yes in the early 90's (it was a free ticket and I figured what the hell). I have no problem with jamgrass - hell, I will be at the Winfield Bluegrass Festival this fall to see the Waybacks three nites in a row. I can't help but here Phish when I hear SCI in the sense that when I hear both bands, I hear tons of riffs and incredible technical/musical ability, but I also hear riffs that go on and on and on with no direction. I can see your point about the "trance" b/c SCI ended with an endless loop/percussion "jam" that again didn't go anywhere - that is, unless we consider going in circles going somewhere. I stand by my advice - if I were seeing the show in St. Louis tonite, I would be in no hurry to get in to see SCI.

[phreaker]

Jim, saying no jam band comes close to the Dead kind of goes without saying. I was at that show, and had an awesome time. I think I enjoyed SCI almost as much as I enjoyed Bobby.

But listen to some of those songs Shakedown recommended. Thats a good list, right there.

And Jim, looking at your username, I assume you're from KC?

[abspatz]

sci is an incredibly talented band when it comes to sheer musical ability. that being said, i'm with Jim on their song-writing skills (or lack thereof). i used to be into the cheese, saw 15 or 20 of their shows between 97 and 03...but i've moved away from them because when it comes down to it, imo, most of their lyrics are awfuly cheesy, no pun intended, and their songs themselves just lack that "something". where is the soul? i've been to 2 shows in the past few years, and have left both at setbreak. i also agree that they spend too much time on a jam that goes nowhere except trance.

however, don't give up on the whole jamband scene. there is some good stuff out there! check out my morning jacket...amazing songs, and a band that takes their music very seriously. and i'm very partial to panic...their early stuff was amazing, their lyrics came close to matching the depth you see in the dead. (don't quote me on that for their newest few albums). their jams have structure and you don't get the feeling they're showing off on stage. i'm getting ready for the NW leg of their tour...4 shows next week baby! then back to the office job......

[phreaker]

if you ever go to a music festival look at the stage schedule, and make room for as many bands as you can that youve never heard of.

as i said before, sci is amazing, but imo, there are sooo many better bands out there that play the same fests as cheese, but arent even heard of!

check out the cat empire. their songs are amazing (about 50 genres rolled into one joint) and the energy at the show is awesome too.

i thought of them because i remember what time i saw cheese last year at wakarusa, and at that same time this year i was having a much better time at the fest watching the cat empire.

just cause a band like cheese is the biggest jam band out there, and you dont like em, dont give up on the scene.

[Jimkkc]

I agree that no "jam band" wants to necessarily sound like the GD or write like the GD; however, the reality is that these bands have inherited a portion of their audience from the GD (and likewise, the GD have "retroactively" inherited a new audience from the fans who were not old enough when the GD retired). That being said, comparisons - however odorous and over-generalized - are inevitable. And as the previous poster stated, some of the lyrics of SCI are just that cheesy - I don't know, perhaps that's the point.
Of course, Weir (and to a certain extent Garcia) is certainly known for lyrical clunkers (Eternity or Mexicali) However, what the GD has/had going for them was the ability to generally write good songs and then take the audience on a trip through various nuanced emotions. For example, the 10.26.89 second set or 2.13.70 stand out as particularly strong examples of a band's ability to convey nuance and complexity. In contrast, when I hear SCI or Phish or OAR, I don't hear a range of emotions - as a musician, what I strive for in my playing is to achieve a variance of emotions (even if my cats are the only audience!) Maybe I am wrong, but if I have a 500 page book in front of me, and the first 75 pages have not interested me, it is more than likely that the final 425 pages will do little to interest me. Likewise, if I obtain several SCI sets on CD's, see them on Austin City Limits, listen to store bought CD's and finally see them live w/o them interesting me, chances are other CD's will do little to interest me.
Since folks seem interested in sharing playlists of a variety of SCI tunes, here is a playlist from my recent drive to Minnesota - the CD's and artists were selected with the idea of moving through a range of emotions.
The Wailin Jenny's
Leo Kottke - 6 and 12 String Guitar
Wes Montgomery - Jazz Guitar
Pink Floyd - DSOTM
Beethoven - 6th Symphony "The Pastoral"
Chicago Transit Authority - CTA
Blind Faith
Grateful Dead - So Many Roads CD's 3-5
Finally (and then I will shut up for awhile) the scene is what it is - I have seen the scene in a positive light (for example,Grateful Dead Family Reuinions in Wisconsin in the early 90's or Alpine Valley in 80's) and I have seen the scene in a truly pathetic light (Chicago 95 where miracle seekers clogged the streets selling "gate crashers suck" stickers and t-shirts! the irony was just perfect!) I truly appreciate such a variety of people, sights, smells, sounds, but I still have to say that if SCI is the direction things are moving in, I may sit the next dance out and just be glad that the scene continues to exist!

[HOWEYMAN]

All I cam say,is that I have listened to SCI for a long time now, and I really dig these guys. I love the songs they cover and they write. One thing is that they can play and play well together. I wish I could play half as good as these guys. As far as live, I've only seen them once at MSU auditorium a few years ago, and I remember moving to the groove all night. I don't know, maybe they played a lot of tunes off of "one step closer", which in my opinion is a good album to have in their pocket, but I hope its not a statement of whats to come.

[st stephen]

please Jimkkc do not f^#k*n compare sci and oar with phish....if u do u are out of your mind. just stop. ....there is plenty of emotion in a phish tune....you enjoy myself just to mention one, oh i dont feel like wasting any more of my time on someone who thinks fu&ki* oar is on the same level as phish.

[Jimkkc]

Hm . . . St. Stephen - you might be the new example of the scene at its most pathetic - my original post and the subsequent posts from other folks up to yours tried to rationally and - I thought - intelligently discuss SCI and different bands - apparently, you are not able to do so - That you need to stoop to using icons speaks to your level of maturity more than it does to my comparison of OAR and Phish. I hope that your attitude towards discussing the "relative" merits of different bands is in the minority because if your attitude is the majority attitude, then we truly are a ship of fools.

[phreaker]

Well, I do think OAR sucks. Pretty bad. I've never really considered them a part of the "scene". They just call themselfs a jam band so they can look different on MySpace's "featured artists".

But Jim, I just wanted to comment on your trip playlist. It's awesome! I've been seeing Leo Kottke since I was about 3. I've probably seen about 20 or 25 or his shows in all. My Mom and I even drove him to Taco Bell not long ago. The man needs his crunchwrap supreem.

And with all this debate about Phish and whatnot...have you listened to the Mike Gordon/Leo Kottke CD's? They have an awesome set on www.nugs.net from Bonarroo. That music shows how versatile Gordon can be. He can go from folk to country to funk to jam anytime.

[Jimkkc]

I agree - the Gordon/Kottke dou is quite a treat. I don't have any of the CD's - though I have heard them. Thanks for the link to the bonnaroo set. On that same note, I like the Trey Anastasio (sp?) solo project too - it is kinda strange to like Trey and Gordon's post-Phish material better than when they played together, go figure. I picked up "Leo Kottke Live" at HalfPrice bookstore and was extremely pleased - the man knows his way around the fretboard.

I would also put in a vote for The Waybacks as a band to see - they have a few cd's out and they have some sets on the archive.org site that can be downloaded. They will be at the Walnut Valley Festival in Winfield, KS this fall - Winfield is a highly recommended festival - if not for the Waybacks, then certainly for the Pecan Grove (if you have been there, you know what I mean!)

[phreaker]

Winfield is the best

[st stephen]

sorry Jimkkc, i owe u an apolody. did not mean to be immature and out of line.

I was just saying to compare four musical geniuses such as phish to oar just got me mad. But i understand what u were saying now. Everyone has the right to there own opinion and i was out of line.

just for me listen to phish fall tour 97 and shows from 98.