[DenverEd]

Our band has played together about 1/2 dozen times. Last Saturday, we played at a party and recorded the whole gig. In the moment, things sounded pretty good. Everyone at the party was very complimentary. I listened to the recording and, my god, there are freakin' clams everywhere. Timing is off, vocals sound weak, guitar tone is thin as hell, etc. Granted, we record with a $200 Tascam, so I am sure that factors in also. Any thoughts? Are we being too harsh on ourselves or not harsh enough?

[Tennessee Jedi]

Our band has played together about 1/2 dozen times. Last Saturday, we played at a party and recorded the whole gig. In the moment, things sounded pretty good. Everyone at the party was very complimentary. I listened to the recording and, my god, there are freakin' clams everywhere. Timing is off, vocals sound weak, guitar tone is thin as hell, etc. Granted, we record with a $200 Tascam, so I am sure that factors in also. Any thoughts? Are we being too harsh on ourselves or not harsh enough?

I tape because I care.
To hear the clams to hear the flubs.
To get better. Why do you think I don't sing in public anymore ?
"The tape" has caused many a night filled with consternation in my household !
But
guitar might be thin due to recording ;not amp/gear ....
And remember the general public isn't made up of musicians - they will always think bands are good and don't listen with the same critical ear -so cut your self a break man !
Keep rocking !

[jeffm725]

My thoughts on Tapes even on crappy equipment is that they dont lie. I tend to be hyper-critical of myself and my bands, but I think that can only be a good constructive thing. Lets put it this way there are about 50 you tube videos of one of my bands that a fan/videographer has posted over the years as well as a few other people. If I had my way or a choice, I would say 1 or 2 of those videos would be there, the rest would be hidden in a place where nobody could ever hear/see them

Even if the tape quality isnt that good you are still hearing what the audience is hearing for better or worse, quality wont have bearing on whether or not clams were played, or harmonies were off, or arrangements being butchered etc..etc.......
Use the recordings as a learning tool to hear what needs work, on both an individual and band basis. Through listening to recordings of myself, I have come along way with my Weir guitar tone, from a standpoint where I couldn't stand it, to a point where I can actually tolerate it now (barely).

If you had a good time at the gig, and more importantly if the crowd had a good time, then that is really what matters in the end.
As much as I hate almost all of our recordings, the crowd is always having a good time and seem to always come back for more.
I am just glad that those people don't listen to us with my ears

Also keep in mind that improv music in general and grateful dead music in particular lends itself to many potential trainwrecks. It is the nature of the music. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[deadguise]

Good dope with good times and anything will sound great at that moment... and on the contrary, from my experience while taping/recording, what seems like an off night when played back, doesn't sound that bad at all.

Record everything and record often, you will get some great stuff sooner than later.

Deadheads can be the most forgiving of audiences, being moved by the music is more important than any technicality.

[RiverRat]

Also keep in mind that improv music in general and grateful dead music in particular lends itself to many potential trainwrecks. It is the nature of the music. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

If you don't swing for the fence, you will never hit home runs! Nothing lamer than a "Dead" band that plays it safe...

Our band has played together about 1/2 dozen times. Last Saturday, we played at a party and recorded the whole gig. In the moment, things sounded pretty good. Everyone at the party was very complimentary. I listened to the recording and, my god, there are freakin' clams everywhere. Timing is off, vocals sound weak, guitar tone is thin as hell, etc. Granted, we record with a $200 Tascam, so I am sure that factors in also. Any thoughts? Are we being too harsh on ourselves or not harsh enough?

Nah, that sounds just about right... You're being as harsh as anyone would be on themselves.

Music is interpretive by nature... You may not care for something that someone else loves... and that includes your own playing! When you think it sounds grate in the moment, it usually sucks... Some you think you completely punted a tune only to find it was a LOT BETTER than you could have hoped for...

You may suck today, just have a goal of sucking less tomorrow.... No problem there, just a matter of self-improvement. It's when other people think you suck worse than you think you suck... that's a problem. And typically it's the other persons problem, because they're too preoccupied with your suckitude to notice that they suck just as badly.

[DenverEd]

"You may suck today, just have a goal of sucking less tomorrow.... No problem there, just a matter of self-improvement. It's when other people think you suck worse than you think you suck... that's a problem. And typically it's the other persons problem, because they're too preoccupied with your suckitude to notice that they suck just as badly"

LOL. You have a way with words......

[Rusty the Scoob]

Taping shows is one of the best things you can do to improve your collective and individual playing. Enjoy it for what it is - the crowd had fun, and you've got a great tool to get better.

Personally I'll listen to myself play and sometimes think I'm the greatest bass player in the world and sometimes think I'm unworthy to even continue playing. Usually it's somewhere in between. It definitely helps to hear yourself.

[Lembic]

Rusty,
I totally agree, there are nights that as we are playing I think my bass playing is lacking, I hear the recording, and it all sounds fine. Other nights I feel good and recording tells another story. The recording should be about what is needed to improve the overall sound and just be an educational tool. It can at times be very hard to step back from your own playing and listen to the whole. But, I do believe that live music is a thing of the moment and sometimes the moment is best not repeated a hundred times to drive yourself nuts. Just my thoughts.

Lembic

http://www.myspace.com/violinriver

[Billbbill]

Everything everyone is saying here is right on the mark - At the risk of being repetitious I too think listening to yourself is a valuable tool, from a number of angles. And doing what we do, going out on a limb to try and find that somewhat elusive alchemy, is bound to have some trainwrecks - if you don't you ain't tryin'! I seldom have a good feel for how I'm playing in the moment though I do know when I hit the clams and I kinda have a clue when something good is in progress. More often than not I think something is forgetably lousy/forgetable only to listen and find it wasn't bad at all - maybe even fairly decent! The biggest thing is to not be too hard on yourself - as deadguise said us deadheads are a pretty forgiving lot - it's how we're wired - we'd put up with some lousy performances with the hope/thought that we'll eventually catch a special one - that we won't soon forget.

[Chuckles]

Perfect timing!

Compare these two recorded versions of the same song from last Sunday. We played a telethon for a local high school's scholarship fund thinking we could get our friends and family around the country to watch the streaming video and maybe a decent video or SB recording out of it - it was a freebie. Well, the stream didn't work and the SB is what went out over the air (that's the one called "10"); the "Chuck" version is what I recorded on my PCM-D50 sitting on top of the guitar amps (which is why the keys are so low). You'll need to either lower the volume on the 1st or raise it on the 2nd cut; the SB clips a bit and the second doesn't carry well without a little boost - at least not through my headphones...

Check out the amateur board folks adding the not quite Healy-esque effects to the vox! High comedy I tells ya!


Whoda thunk we would need Miller to put together a matrix for us...


I mean, the recording I made doesn't show me in any great light, but it at least picks up the nuances of the little accent parts I'm playing (our singer/other guit player isn't really into anything other than straight rhythm playing, but at least he's very good at it... then again, I'm not really into singing, so that's fair, right?) and the guitar solo sounds like it's being played through a transistor radio. Shit, this is what I used to sound like before getting some decent equipment; it's everything I was trying to get away from... all because the board ops were morons.


I guess what I'm saying is that the quality of the recording is very much a huge part of whether you should even bother to worry about it or not. The tape can absolutely lie in the extreme. In this case, if I worried about the SB version I'd be pulling my hair out and would probably leave the band with my head between my legs - possibly up my ass. This really pissed me off... do a freebie and get zippo in return for the effort... and we actually played a pretty good set!

http://www.archive.org/details/SheBelongsToMe2

[Emoto]

Was playing in a little classic rock band at a joint in Danbury, CT in the mid 80s and we finished up a set with Behind Blue Eyes. It was a horrible train wreck. After finishing it, we came off the tiny stage feeling dejected, only to have 3 or 4 strangers come up to us and excitedly tell us how great it was.

It goes to show, you don't never know...

[keirweir]

Rusty the scoob said...

"Personally I'll listen to myself play and sometimes think I'm the greatest bass player in the world and sometimes think I'm unworthy to even continue playing. Usually it's somewhere in between. It definitely helps to hear yourself."

Dude your an amazing bass player period