[Shaft1038]

Hello, this is my first post.

I'm 22 and have been listening to The Grateful Dead since 2002(4 years). I still remember the first time I heard the 11-11-73 Winterland, China/Rider.


(Story of our band, IF you want to get to my origianl point, skip)

Music was at an all time high in my life, and the dead seemed to tell the story better then anyone else I had heard. They also reminded me of the 5 piece band i was in, alot actually. We had a virtuoso of sorts on lead. The kid was and still is amazing. But our main strength was our tight knit rythym section. The bond was especially tight between our bass player and pianist. Our drummer was the craziest person I've ever met. I can't tell some of the stories here, but he was a very tasteful drummer who always new when to take us to the next level, or when to bring us back down. Then there was me, I played rythym guitar. If it wasn't for one giant sized ego I have no doubt we would still be playing and playing well.

None of the rythym section was any good. 2 of our players JUST started playing 3 weeks before our first show. No one besides our lead player knew what they were doing, but IT was great this way. Every single jam was an experiment. A search for the right note. I always described our jams as tune ups followed by short sectioned songs. YOu could hear everyones personality in every note they played.

Our bass player was more Phil Lesh then he would ever let you believe. His taste and touch held our band together through the improv sections, and if there was ever a doubt that we couldn't pull something off we could always look to him. And we did. Our pianist was strictly rythyms. He didn't play with fingers, he played with hammers. If there was ever anyone who could play a single A chord for 5 minutes and make that 5 minutes interesting it was him. Our drummer had the most distinct talent in the band. I've never heard a drummer like him and never will. It's hard to describe exactly how he used to play, so I won't. I'll just say he always was on time(music wise). Rythym guitar was something I wasn't very good at. I wasn't very good at keeping a rythym, and I hated stayin on one chord throughout a song. I was bored easily and it showed. i was the least ampilfied, a rythym player who hated bar chords, who likes to play melodies, and i didn't like playing songs.

then there was the lead player. a kid with limitless potential who limited himself with every song and show. I think i mentioned before how good we were at jamming. it was just fun and games, when we would jam it was serious, when i say we were good its closer to great. Unfortunatly, we rarely jammed onstage. Our lead made excuses, "The people don't like jamming." was his favorite. Fuck the people, if they don't want to hear it, let em leave. It wasn't the fillmore afterall. He was afraid that we wouldn't play as well as we could, that we or he might screw up, most of all, he was afraid that people would not get it. But of course, they did get it, and they were begging for it, they just didn't know it.

they figured it out after a show in a tiny, packed, sweaty bar. to bad our lead player didnt. this show was amazing for a couple of reasons. 1st off, we hadn't played live in over 4 months. in those 4 months we never practiced either. we had started practicing 2 weeks prior to the show. to say we were unprepared would be an understatement. nevertheless we took the stage with the confidence confined in a "who the hell cares?" attitude. with that, we took off, and for 3 and half hours we came down one time for a set break. we were stars for the rest of the night. it was fun and weird at the same time.

to make a really long story long, we quit 3 weeks later. tension was too high and it was getting worse every practice. we couldn't play enough shows to release the pent up aggresion. i've never played in another band. never will. nothing will ever compare and ill never find players like those guys ever again.

(original point now)

What is the attraction with post 77' dead? I find them to be extremly spacey, and not in a good way, post 77'. 73' might be their peak, but anything before that is amazing. Especially 69' when the raw force more then over shadows their lack of knowledge. Maybe some insight will help me listen to the later stuff, as I'm quickly running our of pre 74'.

[strumminsix]

What is the attraction with post 77' dead? I find them to be extremly spacey, and not in a good way, post 77'

Brent Mydland. Besides him, nothing else to me.

My favorite years: 60s (blues, R&B psychedic ROCK), 73, 74, 77, 79.

You seem like a super cool dude and your writing style is captivating, you should consider writting short stories.

And because you seem cool, I'll speak to you like a friend:
#1 - learn your barre chords and take a tip from you keyboardist and learn to play one chord for 10 minutes and make it count each time. Here is my trick from a fellow rhythm guitarist, listen to the drummer when he's playing in a pocked and try strumming when he hits a certain drum or cymbal, then make different shapes going down the neck of the chord, say it's a jam in E major, play it open, then off the second, then off the fourth, then off the 7th, then 9th, then 12th, finally, grab the triad off 14th.

#2 saying you won't be in a band cuz they were so great is like saying you've just had your best lay but you broke up and will never have sex again. Get over it, take the experience and move forward. Each band has it's unique rewards and challenges. The common rewards I look for are: productive, fun. Besides, if you weren't gonna keep playing you'd never be here!!!

Finally, I've got a band that has prod & fun. But if we split up tomorrow, I'll find some other cats to play with and that's how it works.


Stick around!! Where are you from?

[Shaft1038]

Thanks for the tips. I'm MI, near Detroit.

[Shaft1038]

ahh, and thanks for the compliments. i would need the worlds greatest editor to become a writer.

[tigerstrat]

What is the attraction with post 77' dead?

well actually my attraction is more for post-78 Dead, since that year is something of a snoozer, but easily answered:

1) Jerry's pinnacle of great TONE w/the Tiger, new FX loop and his fantastically fluid playing CHOPS of 79-83.
2) Phil emerging from his drunken stupor to play tighter and more aggressive BASS
3) both drummers healthy and their combination sound tightened and expanded.
4) the Beast and the Beam
5) big supple, muscular, smooth-as-glass, clever-as-hell JAMS
and 6) last, but far from least, much better harmony singing and inventive keyboard play from Brent Mydland

[Shaft1038]

Do you in anyway feel that The Dead post 78, mainly post 87, are responsible for jam bands of today?

[Shaft1038]

I haven't heard anything after 78', jam wise, that is in the same space as, let's say, truckin > The Other, One-hundred year hall. Can you give me some shows, or point me in the general direction? I would love to hear a better "Wharf Rat" then 6-16-74.

[wisedyes]

I would say that the Dead are greatly responsible for the current jam band scene, absolutely. Both by their inspiration and example, and by their absence. Every jam band type show I go to, no matter who it is, has many of the trappings of a Dead show, just on a smaller scale.

Tie dyes, hippies, dancing, a communal feel, people following the tour, the drugs, etc etc. You don't see that sort of thing at a Britney Spears gig.

I remeber when Phish got going in the mid-late '80's. They timed their tours for when the Dead were not on the road, at least in the same area. Go to any Little Feat, or Gov't Mule, or Allmans show nowadays, most of the fans are Deadheads.

[Shaft1038]

The next question then, is it a good thing?

[caspersvapors]

I haven't heard anything after 78', jam wise, that is in the same space as, let's say, truckin > The Other, One-hundred year hall. Can you give me some shows, or point me in the general direction? I would love to hear a better "Wharf Rat" then 6-16-74.

well speak of the devil because IMO the 78 red rocks show has been many times called the best wharf rat ever, one of the most creative jerry solos ive ever heard

[Shaft1038]

Where can I get this show?

[shakedown_04092]

I haven't heard anything after 78', jam wise, that is in the same space as, let's say, truckin > The Other, One-hundred year hall. Can you give me some shows, or point me in the general direction? I would love to hear a better "Wharf Rat" then 6-16-74.

Copps Coliseum 3.22.90 set II is an incredible post-78 jam, IMO. The Scarlet>Fire to open the set is beautiful, and the Jam > The Other One coming out of drumz is downright dirty.

IMO, there are plenty of great moments post-78, and my collection reflects that. I probably have twice as many shows post-78 as I do 65-77 (but that also directly relates to the fact that it's 5 years more worth of material as well).

Get on www.archive.org, you can DL audience shows and stream soundboard shows from any year. Hopefully that'll open you up to some of the later years. Here are some shows that pop into my mind that you should check out:

3/21/91 Cap Center, Landover, MD
3/20/92 Copps Coliseum
3/31/85 Cumberland County Civic Center, Portland, ME

There are also some pretty good shows from '87 as well, though the only ones I can remember are the September Providence ones and one from Shoreline 10/4/87.

There are plenty in the '80-'83 range, as someone here already stated.

Anything from March 1990 is SMOKIN' HOT!!! Specifically the 2 night run at Hartford and the 3 night runs at The Knick & Nassau.

Just get on the archive and start listening, bro!

[shakedown_04092]

http://www.archive.org/browse.php?colle ... %2Fcreator

they changed the address to the archive, so here's the new one.

Anyone know why it's all moved around and different? It's confusing as hell now to navigate!

[Shaft1038]

I just listened to some of the stuff off of Nugs. You are right, there are moments that soar just like their old days, they are tighter, better musicians, and Bob is a better singer.

I don't like it.

I am stuck on 69' at the moment. This st. stephen>eleven>caution>feedback>bid you goodnight so fucking intense. The thing about these early jams is that they are always so close to spinning out of control. Always taking the song and music as far as they think they can go without caution, and without fear. Fearless i think is the best way to describe it in fact. When i listen to the early stuff i am always waiting for the next big part, and sometimes, when i know it is about to hit, it doesnt, they save it, and unleash the beast when i am not ready. I never get that feeling from their later stuff. I hope this changes, i really do. but for now, my dead base for songs is limited.

[tigerstrat]

I haven't heard anything after 78', jam wise, that is in the same space as, let's say, truckin > The Other, One-hundred year hall. Can you give me some shows, or point me in the general direction? I would love to hear a better "Wharf Rat" then 6-16-74.

100YH is 1972. The musical gulf between that and the Godchauxs departure in 1979 is wide indeed! Don't get me wrong, 1972-74 is magical, incredibly powerful era. But after the hiatus, it's my opinion that the last half of the decade, post June 76:

... simply not as lean, quite naturally not as musically agile. The reintegration of Mickey doesn't succeed all the time all at once, but is a gradual process that improves into the 80's, and expanded with the addition of the Beam and Beast in 79.
... the obvious deterioration of the Godchauxs' situation(s)
... has Phil performing sloppy drunk fairly frequently (which to avoid dissing anyone's fave, will remain unnamed you'll have to figure those out yurce elves.)... as he calls them, the Heineken Years (which he says lasted until around the time he met Jill in '82, but I hear much less of it in performance after Brent joins.)
...some of the boys getting into the smack.
...injuries to each drummer in 77 and 78 leading to periods of inactivity.

And yes as the late 70's go on, you do hear some jams that harken back to the 72-74 peaks, but they are definitely fewer and fewer, but as we saw time and time again, the Dead never lingered, they kept trying to forge ahead into new spaces.

So Brent joins. The boys have already had their 1972-74 style freakouts, and have matured, and have taken in many more influences, and they are HUNGRY for the guy at keys to play a more active, diversified role. And after they land the perfect guy, you can hear the giant swell of enthusiasm in each member's instrument in those magnificent early 80's jams, which are not as long, but in this high energy mode they don't take as long to get to where they wanna be either...

I'll point to a five of what I consider some of the best GD musics of all-time and able to stand shoulder to shoulder with even the highest pre-hiatus glories.

1. S>F 2/27/81 ...and from the same show to answer your request,
2. Not Fade Away> Wharf Rat 2/27/81 ...the best of each of these songs I've ever heard anywhere, w/ a breathtaking segue in between. But I am a much bigger fan of the later style WR, in the early ones, something about the bridge always sounds clunky imho.
3. C>R 10/12/81 ...completely over-the-top "what is Jerry ON???"
4. Sailor>Saint 10/10/82 ...slicker than pudding.
5. And last but perhaps my fave of all post-hiatus splendors,
Space> Other One 6/27/83 ... totally mind-blowing. paranoid. orgasmic. horrific/beatific. telepathic perfection. You owe it to yourselves to give Jim Vita's incredible AUD a high volume listen.

The next question then, is it a good thing?

I don't understand. You'd rather there was no jam scene?