#56241  by maximinus
 Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:39 pm
Not listed in the tab, but I got worked out these for a guitarist I am playing with. Anyone care to comment?

1st Section: Fm x 4

2nd section: F#dim -> Adim -> Cdim -> Ebdim

(i.e. go up four frets each time with the initial chord)

3rd section: Gm

4th section onwards:

Abdim -> Bdim -> Ddim -> Fdim
(go up four frets each time, starting on the 4th fret)

Bbdim -> Dbdim -> Edim -> Gdim)
(same, but starting on the 6th fret)

Barre all the following chords:

D (10th fret) -> Em (7th fret) -> D (5th) -> C (3rd) -> D (5th) -> C (3rd) -> Bm (2nd) -> G (3rd) -> Am (5th)

Next section: over the next Jerry riff, you need to do a count of 9 beats playing the Am chord. Mute all but the last beat.

This is my first try at youtube, so be gentle....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOWhy8fEtk[/youtube]
 #56242  by jonarobb
 Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:46 pm
Probably the most oft confused piece of rhythm work Weir has ever written....

Not to be too critical but right off the bat Weir is playing an Fm9, not an Fm. Pretty crucial in the way it supports the melody in both the verses of Help on the Way, as well as the first section of Slipknot. Then there's the octave slides and the root-5's he does on the whip... it can get dizzying trying to make sense of it but it actually follows Weirs standard method of partials and inverted chord forms

The whip is the series of arpeggios that Keith and Jerry do together in unison. Weir's support chords, which are straight root-5 power bottoms, are Em>Bm7>F#m7>Am7>Em7>Bm7>Am7>Em7>Am....

Obviously Weir doesn't accent the 7th in any of those chords, he just plays partials on the bottom strings. Jerry and Keith take care of those notes within the melody of the arpeggio. Weir was a master of not stepping into anyone else's range. If you're playing it alone it sounds cool to play the full chord. If you're playing it with a band it'll sound like a mess...

I have the full rhythm tab around here somewhere. I wrote it out for a band I was playing in but we never got to this.
 #56243  by strumminsix
 Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:02 am
I'm with Jon on the whip.

However, might I suggest you find a version and instead of calling sections you call out times.

I've worked up the SYF version, IIRC.
 #56252  by Pete B.
 Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:56 am
I have heard that Bobby once did a Tab spread defining his parts for this song in some guitar mag. I have never beeen able to find it, but I haven't looked that hard.
Does anyone else recall this?
I would love to check it out.
fwiw, the Dec 2005 Guitar Player mag features a Tab spread on the Jerry parts for this tune, which was what got me back into guitar playing after an ~10-year hiatus.
I have a vid on youtube that discusses some of the rhythm guit parts for this one, but it is not an exclusive on the rhythm parts.
All in all, I try to convince everyone that this is an easy song to play, once you understand the mechanics of it.
 #56253  by hogan
 Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:05 am
Pete B. wrote:
All in all, I try to convince everyone that this is an easy song to play, once you understand the mechanics of it.

Amen, brother. Your vid set me straight w/ this one. 1000 thanks. It's addictive once it clicks. Unfortunatly the other 4 guys in the band are a harder sell.
~MJH
 #56263  by tigerstrat
 Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:28 am
For ease and fluidity of interpretation, make accidentals either sharp or flat consistently, try not to mix both in the same musical piece. i.e. either F#, G# or Gb, Ab are good ... not F#, Ab.
 #56266  by strumminsix
 Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:35 am
hogan wrote:
Pete B. wrote:
All in all, I try to convince everyone that this is an easy song to play, once you understand the mechanics of it.

Amen, brother. Your vid set me straight w/ this one. 1000 thanks. It's addictive once it clicks. Unfortunatly the other 4 guys in the band are a harder sell.
~MJH
Good luck with that. Most people don't realize it's a recipe...
 #56269  by tigerstrat
 Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:41 am
hogan wrote:
Pete B. wrote:
All in all, I try to convince everyone that this is an easy song to play, once you understand the mechanics of it.

Amen, brother. Your vid set me straight w/ this one. 1000 thanks. It's addictive once it clicks. Unfortunatly the other 4 guys in the band are a harder sell.
~MJH
Where's that vid again? Cant remember if Ive seen that one.
 #56274  by Pete B.
 Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:09 pm
Here's the whole sha-bang so far:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Ste ... iew=videos

fwiw, when I was young, I learned alot of Pedal Steel from a book that used the same songs over and over with beginner>intermediate>advanced versions/tab of each given song (needless to say, i never want to hear "Streets Of Loredo" again).
My vids are typically geared towards getting guys from "how do you play this one?", to being able to play a playable version, typically in the intermediate range of difficulty.
I don't typically target "here's exactly how Jerry plays it from beginning to end" as that would be a bit daunting and I don't play at that level myself .
Getting from not being able to play it, to being able to play it (whatever song it may be), was a biggie for me. A jumping off point, if you will.
See Help-Slip parts 1-4 in there.
~pb
 #56699  by strumminsix
 Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:56 pm
jonarobb wrote:Probably the most oft confused piece of rhythm work Weir has ever written....

Not to be too critical but right off the bat Weir is playing an Fm9, not an Fm.
How are you voicing this Fm9. I can't get it to sound right.

Also, Pete, thanks for the video. We approach it slightly differently and I'm gaining great insight.
I heard the the diminished walk-ups differently and learning a whole new voicing thanks to your vid!
 #56701  by jonarobb
 Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:51 pm
This would be Weir's grip for 75'-77' versions.....

E|--3-----------
B|--6-----------
G|--5-----------
D|--6-----------
A|--------------
E|--------------



Then when they brought it back in 83' on he grabs it like this:
He often will drop the root for this grip but I've seen him include it enough

E|--------------
B|---8---------
G|---5---------
D|---6---------
A|---(8)----------
E|--------------
 #61768  by strumminsix
 Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:08 pm
Pete B. wrote:Here's the whole sha-bang so far:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Ste ... iew=videos
Great Pete! I learned a few new tricks there that I didn't know! Love it! You are an excellent player! Thank you!

However, I think ya missed something right at the beginning (vid 2):
Fm > Jerry run > F#o7 / / /
Gm > Jerry run > G#o7 / / / > Em7 > Em>Bm7>F#m7>Am7>Em7>Bm7>Am7>Em7>Am7 Am
I'm not hearing the dim walk up, then whole step up , dim walk up again, etc thing that you were doing.
However, in a band context it works. I know this cuz I've pulled it off. However when playing with the recording not so much.

(yes, that Am7 is disputable but I hear it at times maybe it's somewhere between a Bobby chord+Jerry notes+Phil notes+keys)
 #61784  by Pete B.
 Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:12 pm
strumminsix wrote: I'm not hearing the dim walk up, then whole step up , dim walk up again, etc thing that you were doing.
I will try to find the version I used when I did that vid.
iirc, they did a double dim run for a while.
Only do a single dim run if you are playing with the album version.

That's one thing i like to do with all Dead songs...
Repeat the cool parts several times more than the Dead did.
 #61798  by strumminsix
 Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:36 am
Pete B. wrote:
strumminsix wrote: I'm not hearing the dim walk up, then whole step up , dim walk up again, etc thing that you were doing.
I will try to find the version I used when I did that vid.
iirc, they did a double dim run for a while.
Only do a single dim run if you are playing with the album version.

That's one thing i like to do with all Dead songs...
Repeat the cool parts several times more than the Dead did.

Okay, got it! You were working a version! I usually start with studio, learn the construct, then go live (many shows over many years) to hear the evolution and adapt!
 #123000  by bobbyo1986
 Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:57 pm
I had best luck for rhythm using octaves or double stops going f mn > g#m> Bm >dm then when it goes to the g to do the slipknot lick ...walk up same way but from gm from there walks up same way (3 frets) from the Am landing at F# but I have not yet been able to figure out what happens or where to go what to do for the rest of it ..descending part .. can anyone help. the video posted on steelyrfaces you tube account was good and accurate but believe it left out a piece, I would use those full diminished chords if I was just playing it by myself and didnt want to do the jerry runs. Jdarks site has the key Jerry is doing those runs in, which gives a hint but still dont quite know how to approach.. Bobs approach to things can often be a bit more challenge to get a hang on opposed to Jerry.

Appreciate anything anyone has to offer
-Bob O'Neill