[KWRummie]

Hey all,

I’m planning on building a Tiger inspired guitar with a Warmoth WGD body and am looking for some opinions on tone woods. Warmoth does not do the “hippie-sandwich” so I’m looking to build something tonally similar within their limitations. First of all, they don’t offer flame maple as a core so I need to find an alternative. Second, while I can get a cocobolo top, it’s only 1/8” thick and really won’t affect the tone that much. (So I’ve been told).

The closest body I’ve found to match the tone of flame maple is walnut, which they describe as having many of the same qualities but isn't quite as bright. Swamp ash is an option that is even less bright but has somewhat scooped-mids. And mahogany, while certainly not bright, is an excellent sounding wood. I think I’ll be okay with the walnut or swamp ash not being as bright, since the thin cocobolo laminate won’t do much to warm up the tone anyway.

By the way, I have the neck already. It’s a beauty from Soulmate. Ebony board and a flame maple back with a thick center of padouk and thin slices of wenge.

I realize this is a small part of “the sound” and I’ll probably be okay with any of the options. But, I have a choice here so I’d like to get close. What are some wood combinations that you’re happy/unhappy with? Thanks!

[Rusty the Scoob]

Do they have regular maple as a core? I don't see how that would sound all that different from flame maple.

Personally if you want the Maple tone there isn't really a good substitue except for other very bright woods like Purpleheart. It's got a Snap to it that darker woods don't have.. different wood changes the whole response of the instrument, not just by taking off some highs like turning down a tone knob.

Alembic's site is a great resource. They offfer details on each wood and more importantly how they interact. It's hard when you make a Hippie Sandwich, you don't really know how it'll come out until it's done. Your guitar will be a lot more predictable.

That's nice that Warmoth is offering Cocobolo... last I saw it was not an option due to the "itchyness" of it. Apparently it gets worse with more exposure... I found it to be a minor irritation but it bothered my dad a little more than that.

As crazy as it sounds, If you have a Rockler or similar exotic wood supplier near you, I encourage you to go tap on their woods. You'll get a pretty good feel for the differences in how they sound.

[Jon S.]

Two comments for your consideration.

First, are you thinking of maple (or perceived maple-like walnut) because YOU will really like the weight and tone of such an instrument or merely because "it's what Jerry did?" If the latter, you might want to reconsider.

Second, what Warmoth charges for a cocobolo top is simply outrageous. I recently bought a 4 foot plank of cocobolo from Tropical Exotic Hardwoods, for the price of a single 1/8" thick Warmoth cocobolo top, that yielded up to 16 very usable tops of > 3/8" apiece. Pictured below are the two I chose for my Jerrycaster-in-progress. Do you know a local luthier with a thickness sander? If yes, you may wish to consider that option (whether you buy a Warmoth body and "mod" it or have a piece of wood cut for you from a plank - in my case, the inside wood is CITES-certified Honduran mahogany with Warmoth-like top and bottom maple veneers - see last picture - the padouk and sapele were used for the neck).

Top:


Bottom:

[SarnoMusicSolutions]

To me, tone is the most important feature. The top cap wood will impart some tone, but the main body wood is THE sound. You can go for exotic or try to go for what Jerry had, but to me this thing is sort of like a strat. Same scale length and a bolt on neck. You may want to lean toward proven Strat woods, namely ash or alder, and not too heavy of a piece. Swamp ash is nice and airy and resonant. Alder has a more dense and focused mid and can be very sweet sounding. I guess my gut would lean me toward alder. Koa can have a neat tone, but not always. Paduak is extremely dense and sharp sounding. Maple or Purpleheart are also very trebly and very heavy, not warm sounding. Walnut, to me is a boring sounding guitar wood. I had a walnut SG and it just was not a musical wood in my opinion. Mahogany sure is a musical sounding wood, and maybe with a cocobolo cap would make a nice fat and warm sound with a defined top end, sort of the Les Paul mentality. It's always a crap shoot anyway, so while you may be guaranteed to have a beautiful guitar, there's no promise that it will sound great. That's why I'd suggest choosing a wood that is known to consistently sound good, and this would primarily point to:

Alder,
Ash,
Mahogany.

If I were going to gamble, I'd probably go for a light chunk of Alder or Swamp Ash under that Cocobolo cap.


Brad

[Jon S.]

FWIW, I like Brad's analysis of the factors to consider - extremely thoughtful. I'd only emphasize what Brad has already hinted at that there ain't no Strat out there I know of with cocobolo over the ash or alder. That should, all things being equal, make the guitar noticeably brighter and snappier (which is why I elected mahogany as my primary "middle" wood).

[Rusty the Scoob]

Mahogany is also considered by Alembic to be very responsive to the woods around it - it'll absorb more of the character of the Cocobolo than Maple or Alder.

I've only built one bass body myself, so I can't really verify this for sure... but I can say that my bass turned out nice and warm despite the body being almost 50% Maple and Purpleheart. I really like playing jazz on it, better than any other fretted bass I've tried.

[SarnoMusicSolutions]

Good point on the cocobolo top and how it would mess with the strat woods. That does indeed make a strong argument for mahogany.

The one wood that continues to impress me in almost any application I see it used is Koa. It's not all that heavy and is very toneful. I don't know how it compares to mahogany in density or tone, but for such a gorgeous wood, it's quite musical.

But I sure can see the point made here to strongly consider mahogany to go under the cocobolo cap.

Also consider, 1/8" of an inch thick is not very much wood. Compared to the center area of a maple cap on a Les Paul, it's borderline insignificant with regards to how much actual cocobolo mass that's actually there to impart tone. Maybe not insignificant, but not huge most likely. Lots of variables here to juggle.


Brad

[KWRummie]

This is great information all of you. Thank you, thank you!!!

Great to hear first-hand about walnut. Everything I’ve read talks about its sound characteristics but I’ve never got the impression that it is a “live” sounding piece of wood. The Alembic info was great. I’ve been to their site many times but never found that section. Those cocobolo planks are beautiful. I had considered doing something that way but I don’t have the tools and can’t find a luthier here (Key West) to help with a project like this.

Well, I ended up buying a body sooner than I expected after starting this thread. I’ve been obsessing over this for months and had planned on having them build one for me. I happened to check their showcase section of built bodies and one I had been eyeing dropped in price by $150 so I decided to grab it. (Actually, most of them went down in price). The one I bought has a mahogany body with a pau ferro top. I think that will be a good combination with my neck.

I appreciate all the excellent advice. Oh, here are some pix. -Greg

[SarnoMusicSolutions]

That's a beauty. I bet you'll love the tone of mahogany and pau ferro.

I would expect a warm, resonant, and rich sustained after-tones.


Brad

[Jon S.]

Nice top!



Reminds me of my own on my first Jerrycaster (also Warmoth/Malagasy rosewood top).

[paulinnc]

Is that a soulmate neck? If so, it looks awesome and I bet it feels like butter too. I will eventually do a Warmoth Tiger project and probably get another neck from Doug.

[KWRummie]

Hey, thanks guys! I'm looking forward to getting it. They have to rout the middle humbucker and do the finish. I'll be sure to post some pictures and let you know how it sounds.

Paul, it is a Soulmate neck. I was actually planning on going with a Warmoth LP neck until I saw the pix you posted of the neck you got from Doug. I started trading emails and designed this one with him. He's a great guy to work with. Like you said about yours, the pictures just don't do it justice. -Greg

[paulinnc]

Awesome!!! I will be doing a warmoth tiger project at some point and I will definitely go through doug again for the neck. I never knew a bolt on neck could be so pretty.

[philsaam]

Hey I am empressed with the neck for your kit guitar-----the flamed maple in neck has nice figure looks very well constructed and the wood colors are choice!!! -the fingerboard can be inlayed anytime ---what I would suggest for a really good choice of body wood ----a nicely figured piece of well seasoned KOA ---make the whole guitar with figured KOA , couple veneers of maple and piece of purpleheart /or vermillion in a through body neck and the rest you design ---locking nut/tremelo- pu combos --block inlays /position inlays say like abalone over mother of pearl block or any shape -like gibson shaped -1/2 mop & 1/2 brass -abalone-old piano key Ivory etc---KOA is a real fine guitar/bass wood - mixed with mahogany --or walnut well seasoned [dry]stable ---your guitar becomes you ---congratulations on your new baby ---good work -heres to a long happy successful future in pursuit of tones and good tunes --happy for ya BRO -phil