[devoarlo9]

so i've recently been introduced to some of these torrent sites and their infinite resources, especially dead dvd's. is anyone else's moral compass pointing them astray???

[Laytonco]

Yeah, it happens to me. I'll certainly join in on the You Tube clips and such, but when it comes to downright taking the whole thing, I hesitate. Plus, for me, having my own mint copy, with all the extras and info inserts is worth the ~$20 bucks for the storebought version. That being said, I would never say anything to or about someone who decided to grab it for free. That's their own personal choice.

Peace,

Gil

[mutant_dan]

There are some pretty cool vids going down over at www.thetradersden.org. They don't allow any commercial released stuff to be torrented. You will see some broadcast quality stuff and single cam vids that have been synched with the soundboard recordings.

[bucketorain]

torrent sites that are "true" sharing sites where there is someone seeding the show from their computer and you leech on, is trading. it is like blanks and postage but just electronically.

the problem Archive.org ran into was that shows were just sitting there and not being shared by someone who had the source. it was like going to the library without a library card.

most of the reputable sites will not allow shows that have been commercially released to be seeded.

[KCJones]

I would never say anything to or about someone who decided to grab it for free. That's their own personal choice.

I would definately say something to the thief who is ripping off an artist who is trying to make a living at it. If you steal enough from an artist they are no longer going to be able to afford to make the art that you may love and cherish.

[Mick]

I'm not an artist, but I make my living working for a company that depends 100% on copyright law to make dime #1 (book company). In other words, I don't use "lime wire" or other "free" sites that offer copyrighted works at no charge. By the laws of this country, to do so is stealing. I know people rationalize it 100 different ways, but if you take something that doesn't belong to you, that is stealing plain and simple.

I have an urge to get on my soapbox because of the crap that has been done to us by some other countries, like buying one copy of our book here, producing it themselves and stealing the foreign market from us as well as dumping cheap imitations on our domestic markets to really fark them up good too, but I won't. The point is that what seems like a minimal thing at the point of sale (or no sale in this case), can really screw up how thousands of people make their living.

I think downloads of shows that fans recorded and have traded is fine because Jerry said "Let them have it!". Downloading something that Ice Nine is selling commercially without paying the due to the appropriate parties is stealing and it is wrong.

Just one man's opinion.

Mick

[strumminsix]

torrent sites that are "true" sharing sites where there is someone seeding the show from their computer and you leech on, is trading. it is like blanks and postage but just electronically.

the problem Archive.org ran into was that shows were just sitting there and not being shared by someone who had the source. it was like going to the library without a library card.

most of the reputable sites will not allow shows that have been commercially released to be seeded.

Very well said and totally agree.

[Tennessee Jedi]

What about SunShine DayDream ?
My buddy got a copy of the net somewhere and we watched it.It clearly said do not record or copy.I dont remember any other trademarks or even any claims of ownership on it.
I would hope no one was ripped off.
I guess unless the Dead release a soundboard then its not cool to listen to?
I have bought so many Dicks Picks and One From the Vaults and stuff over the years that I wonder how much money are we talking about?
I hardly ever buy anything any more cause you can just ask a bud for say ACE or Europe 72 and they burn it down quick quick.
Its all about the $$$$ I guess.
The Dead seem like part of the USAs Heritage It should all be Free.I'm a dreamer for sure.
Someones book seems like a different thing to me.I can see that.
I remember thinking when Metalicas (?Whatever?) album was leaked on the net before it was released that might not be too cool.And yet the cynic in me thought Tough Luck you probably leaked it your self.

[krzykat]

What about SunShine DayDream ?
My buddy got a copy of the net somewhere and we watched it.It clearly said do not record or copy.I dont remember any other trademarks or even any claims of ownership on it.
I would hope no one was ripped off.
I guess unless the Dead release a soundboard then its not cool to listen to?
I have bought so many Dicks Picks and One From the Vaults and stuff over the years that I wonder how much money are we talking about?
I hardly ever buy anything any more cause you can just ask a bud for say ACE or Europe 72 and they burn it down quick quick.
Its all about the $$$$ I guess.
The Dead seem like part of the USAs Heritage It should all be Free.I'm a dreamer for sure.
Someones book seems like a different thing to me.I can see that.
I remember thinking when Metalicas (?Whatever?) album was leaked on the net before it was released that might not be too cool.And yet the cynic in me thought Tough Luck you probably leaked it your self.

Ken Babbs sent me a copy of this (SSDD)and told me that all the copies are coming from him. On the disc it said do not copy.

As for tradersden or lossless legs, those are mostly shows that were taped by audience members. These videos are not licensed. There is no need to worry about copyright infringement

[Oscillation]

as for music i buy it legally then download it illegally at higher bps....i don't know where i stand legally but i feel like i am on the moral high ground....

downloading commercially available dvds is a waste of time for me as someone else said i far prefer having my own store bought version...

i will also download illegally if it is not available commercially...out of print stuff....

[drums>space]

When it comes to torrent sites and the dead, i just can't do it. Anything that has been released by the dead i will not download. My suggestion is just to go on etree and get some of the soundboards... their still floatin around. It's really all up to the individual though, I have so much respect for this band that I have no problem giving them my hard earned money. They earned it after 30 years of creating some of the best music i have ever heard, while also creating one of the biggest, kindest, and most beautiful family this earth will ever see.

[oconnors_35]

Here is a good search engine that searches bittorrent sites, both legal and illegal.

http://www.isohunt.com/

SeanO

[BuddhaG]

If SSDD was available for purchase I would be all over that option. Unfortunately, there is no way to pay for it so that the money goes to the artist. I don't really feel waiting for it be released if it ever will be so I chose other options to obtain it.

If there is a free soundboard available online of a show that has been turned into a Dick's Picks and I download it am I a theif?

As for torrents, I don't use them but I watch a lot of new movies that my roommate downloads for free. I wouldn't do it because I don't have the time or memory on my computer to devote to this but I don't mind watching movies that someone else has "stolen". Should I reject all notion of seeing a movie I am curious about just because it was stolen?

Should I go lock myself in my room because a stolen movie is being watched?

I don't think so...

[Mick]

A couple of comments here, as I seem to be the only one on the side of the music writer/owner here (which given the group, really surprises me). I think the acid test is "what if it was yours?" Seriously, if you wrote a song and it was really popular and you were trying to make your living by selling cds and downloads, and some guy buys one of your cds and sends copies to all his friends via e-mail, would you be pissed? Would you feel he had stolen from you? My answers are yes and yes.

If SSDD was available for purchase I would be all over that option. Unfortunately, there is no way to pay for it so that the money goes to the artist. I don't really feel waiting for it be released if it ever will be so I chose other options to obtain it.

This is nothing more than one of the hundreds of rationalizations I mentioned above. I read this to say "I find the artists chosen methods of distribution to be inconvenient for me, so I stole it."

If there is a free soundboard available online of a show that has been turned into a Dick's Picks and I download it am I a theif?

That depends. If The Grateful Dead choose to put a free download out there, and give you the option to buy it on CD, then you chosing the free download option is not stealing. If they are trying to sell you the CD as a "Dick's Picks" and someone else makes the soundboard available for free online, that person is clearly breaking the law. IMO, anyone who downloads it is stealing the content.

As for torrents, I don't use them but I watch a lot of new movies that my roommate downloads for free.

Forgive me, but I see this as self-contradictory.

I don't mind watching movies that someone else has "stolen". Should I reject all notion of seeing a movie I am curious about just because it was stolen?

I don't want to come off as telling people what they should and shouldn't do. Personally, I would not want to watch a movie that I knew was stolen. That is just me. The beginning of this thread was asking a question about what direction one's moral compass is pointing. I think that what you have written here clearly shows yours points in a dramatically different direction than mine. For whatever that is worth.

[Tennessee Jedi]

Mick the only thing I disagree with you is that anyone would want any music I made Let alone steal it!
I think you are totally right,though.
The only thing I dont really like is how the Dead stopped the downloading of soundboards for a couple of reasons-
1)Betty The sound mix babe has said that the tapes were for quality control and the band never thought anyone would want them.
2)They let people download stuff for years without any probs and then they take it away when they realize that they could sell the recordings.
3)Anything they release will be remastered anyway.The sound will be better.The Die-Hards will always go for the best sound source anyway.
4)It was the employees of the Dead that leaked most of the tapes anyway.Werent the roadies passing out copies of shows?
I just think the Dead are biting the hand that feeds them sometimes.
Peace