#34152  by Chuckles
 
IamDocWatson wrote:i use that G shape alot but not full.bob does also

i just play it like this..
say for the B chord

e-7--pinky
B-4
G-4--first finger bar the 4th fret
D-4
A-6--ring
E-x

or move up the pinky and play it like this...

e-x
B-7
G-4
D-4
A-6
E-x

if u cant stretch for the F#m try it this way

e-5---or 9
B-7
G-6
D-7
A-x
E-x
No rule says every instrument has to play every note of every chord. The music sounds much less dense when you don't, IMHO. So, to use the above example, I find myself often substituting a B5 in there, which gives a nice, full Bobby "chiming" sound because you're doubling up the F#.

e-7--pinky
B-7--pinky
G-4
D-4
A-x
E-x

You could add the 3 (D#) on the A-6 with the ring finger if you just GOTTA have the full chord, but I hear Bobby playing lots of fragments.

 #34158  by Mick
 
I get it now, thanks everyone! I think I was really crossed up because the 4 note F#m you guys laid out has no C in it. It is just F# A F# A.

 #34161  by shakedown_04092
 
IamDocWatson wrote: e-5---or 9
B-7
G-6
D-7
A-x
E-x
But technically, that's an A6, not an F#m ?

 #34162  by shakedown_04092
 
Mick wrote:I get it now, thanks everyone! I think I was really crossed up because the 4 note F#m you guys laid out has no C in it. It is just F# A F# A.
The one I posted did have the C# (G string, 6th fret)

 #34165  by strumminsix
 
shakedown_04092 wrote:
IamDocWatson wrote: e-5---or 9
B-7
G-6
D-7
A-x
E-x
But technically, that's an A6, not an F#m ?
Looks and sounds more like a Dmaj7.

 #34166  by strumminsix
 
shakedown_04092 wrote:
Mick wrote:I get it now, thanks everyone! I think I was really crossed up because the 4 note F#m you guys laid out has no C in it. It is just F# A F# A.
The one I posted did have the C# (G string, 6th fret)
No C in an F#m. Mine had a C# too!

 #34171  by shakedown_04092
 
strumminsix wrote:
shakedown_04092 wrote:
IamDocWatson wrote: e-5---or 9
B-7
G-6
D-7
A-x
E-x
But technically, that's an A6, not an F#m ?
Looks and sounds more like a Dmaj7.
Agreed, but w/out the D in the bass it's an A6. Same chord basically, just one note difference.

That's actually pretty interesting and something I never noticed before: If you consider that the "maj7" chord in question is a 4th (and not the 1), then it is relative to it's root as a major 6th chord, minus the 4th's root, if that makes any sense. Hmmm...

So a Gmaj7 is the same as a D6 without the G in the bass, and an Emaj7 is the same as a B6, minus the E, etc.

 #34173  by Mick
 
Strummin' and Shakedown:

You guys are both right, it is F# C# F# A. My bad. However, I did warn you I was having a brain cramp on this one....

Thanks,

Mick

 #34257  by IamDocWatson
 
there are different chords that can be made up of the same notes...it just depends on how u apply them...if i play that f#m shape in a song with F#m but no A u wouldnt think of it as an A6...its just an inverted F#m

e-5 A
B-7 F#
G-6 C#
D-7 A

 #34289  by KCJones
 
Bob, admittedly, essentially emulates McCoy Tyner, the great jazz pianist. Tyner is Bob's biggest influence. So, if you relate to piano better than guitar in understanding technique and theory, check out Tyner, and you will understand Bob. Just listen to Tyner, it's so amazingly clear where bob is coming from, it blows me away.

http://mccoytyner.com/index.cgi

 #34332  by stinkypinky
 
I've played Dead songs my whole life, but just recently hooked up with an actual Dead cover band for the first time (called Mason's Children). It's been a blast by the way. The other guitarist and I trade off parts depending on the song, so I get the "Bobby" role on many tunes. A few observations so far:

1. Bobby's playing is unlike that of ANY other guitarist I've ever heard, and contributes a great deal (probably as much as Jerry and/or Phil) to that overall intangible quality of the Dead's sound that is very hard to mimic.

2. I find myself having to listen VERY intently to the rest of the band when I'm in the "Bobby" role, to make sure my chords and rhythms fit in without stepping on anything else. I find myself having to listen even more intently than I do when I'm in the "Jerry" role--when I'm "Jerry" I can just sort of float over everything, but when I'm "Bobby" I feel like it's more important to support the sound of the whole band, which requires intense listening.

3. Standard bar-chord voicings often sound way too dense within the Dead-y context. In many cases, the simpler the better, such as 2-, 3-, and 4-note chords.

4. I find that it sounds good to replace regular major chords with "sus2," "sus4," and "add9" chords. On minor chords, I often substitue "m7," "m9," and "m11" chords.

5. The rhythms within Bobby's playing are super-important as well (a topic that hasn't really been discussed in this thread yet). They often form a counterpoint to other rhythmic things that are happening within the music (this goes back to the listening thing). A great example of this kind of thing is his part in "Scarlet Begonias."

6. In general, I think of the "Bobby" role as having to do with things like color and texture, as opposed to the "Jerry" role of dripping icing all over the cake.

7. I also find that, as "Bobby", my playing can drive the overall dynamics of the music to a great extent. In a jam, if I pump up the energy by playing louder or more rhythmically "busy," it forces the rest of the band to step it up too. Again this goes back to listening, and must be done tastefully, but it totally works.


I could probably add to this list if I sat around and thought about it, but these things jump to mind immediately.

And in regards to Rob Eaton from Dark Star Orchestra (who I've met several times and is a super-nice guy), I have gained a whole new respect for what he does. What amazes me in particular is that he can do "70's Bobby" or "80's Bobby" or even "90's Bobby", mimicking not only the playing style, but the guitar tones as well. I may go ahead and shoot him an e-mail about this--if I get a reply I'll post it here.

Great discussion, folks...I hope we can continue it!

Paul