[Tennessee Jedi]

Watch the Grateful Dead Movie for some ripping Bass in Yo Face.

[Pete B.]

Here's the group I was speaking of:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... D=98787066


'Didn't mean to limit the Bass solo thing to Eyes (sorry 'bout the T or F thing... just posting off the top of my head at the moment I guess).

I guess my thought is... I'll give the bass player (or any solo'ist) a solo on every song if he wants one. and I'll try not to step on them musically during that time.

A good example of the moving your instrument musically from foreground to background are Brent era FOTD's. You can clearly hear the musical give and take where Brent, then Bobby, then Jer are laying way out, then solo'ing.
The thing about laying way out for a while is, when you come wailing back in it's like a new breadth of fresh air.

[strumminsix]

This is an excellent thread. Might I reiterate a point that I feel requires it and add a tangential point...

VOLUME & it's impact on tone

Cutting a few dBs helps to allow others to shine while you necessarily don't leave them without a foundation.

But cutting volume may make a guitar muddy which will kill the low volume foundation thus making it sonically displeasing to the listener.

Lastly, if boost for riffs remember to come back down.

[Laytonco]

In teh Pranksters, I play Bob. What is working for us to to have the keys keep the foundation which let's me accent or sometimes echo the solo. We can actually get sort of a reverb/echo sound going with the two guitars. But mostly, I stay in the background and accent.

Peace,

Gil

[Tennessee Jedi]

Check out the Friend from the summer 80 Alaska shows.
I'm "re-discovering" this old chestnut.
Love the Brent Bob(!!!) Jerry trade offs.So sweet.
That is a great example, Pete.I love Jerrys playing behind that awesome Brent solo.
Dude you know us guitar dogs deep down just want to listen to ourselves anyway!
Check out that Alaska show!

[BlobWeird]

Question, I have seen the dead perform eyes maybe thirty times, never a bass solo, what are you guys referring to?

I guess someone will say the studio version on wake, I always felt the thing about the dead was their live perfomances,
How can a tribute band for a band known for its live performances copy their studio work, I don't get it...

Tons of them all over 73 and 74.

As for the topic at hand. I dont play in a band and never have lol. So yeah I wouldnt really know about all the interaction like that. Ive been playin for about 5 years now. I think its finally time I start lookin for a dead cover band. Tough to find though. Plus I just never know when im competently ready for it.

[Tennessee Jedi]

Go for it Blob!

[FretfulDave]

As for the topic at hand. I dont play in a band and never have lol. So yeah I wouldnt really know about all the interaction like that. Ive been playin for about 5 years now. I think its finally time I start lookin for a dead cover band. Tough to find though. Plus I just never know when im competently ready for it.

Blob - Man, I been playing for, lets see as of the holiday, 39 years and I still don't know if I am competent. Or can competently play. Or whatever. With all that time I have only been playing with "bands" for the last 4 1/2 years. Get out there and find some guys to play with. Hopefully guys you get along with and like. Don't limit yourself to Dead cover bands. I have played (jammed) with a group of guys that are all over the map, Phish, Dead, Allmans and other related or semi-related music. It's good. Makes you better to play with others. Another bunch of guys are pretty much Dead focused and that is more recent and is a different experience.

You know what, if you find some folks to play with and they don't like your playing or even like you as a person, don't hang with them, look around some more. That would be my point of view on another thread that went on a couple days back. Try to find folks you like and play, play, play. Life is too short not to. And too short to waste in situations that make you unhappy.

As for the under the lead thing, I do what some others have stated, keep my setting on my designated rhythm pickup and play full chords, partials, single note runs but understated and when I do that I try to play in a register below or above the lead, depending on where he is playing. I think it sounds good. As for what other folks think... re-read above comment.

Do not avoid playing with other folks because of what others might think of your competence, etc. I sang in spite of what I thought my voice was like and guess what, it got better over the years. Maybe even passable or competent. Who knows.

As Tennessee Jedi said:

Go for it Blob!

Dave

[tigerstrat]

VOLUME & it's impact on tone

Cutting a few dBs helps to allow others to shine while you necessarily don't leave them without a foundation.

But cutting volume may make a guitar muddy which will kill the low volume foundation thus making it sonically displeasing to the listener.

Depends on the guitar and the rig!

I do like to cut volume to about 2/3 behind another soloist, enough so that even if I get somewhat frisky and/or chunky in comping or adding a riff at the hook it won't disrupt or distract from the continuity of the solo. I really love Jerry's comping to the keys in JGB tunes like How Sweet... how he'd let the keys wail away multiple times but get a little busier in comping behind them each time through, building it back up to take another solo himself.

[Chuckles]

Just my 2 cents... I don't much care for the notion of "taking solos", so much as I think of it as a musical discussion taking a brief detour down a tangent where there's music with no vox. Maybe it's cause I only play in a 4-piece, but if the other guitarist steps out, it's incumbent on me to continue the dialogue with him, just as I am playing off what he and the other guys do when I take a lead. Of course I'll be much more understated in what I play, but you can bet I'm going to play.

As for the Eyes thing... depends on what our bassist feels like doing. We all keep in good eye contact with each other, so we know if he want to go off. If he does, he leads a jam with the rest of us playing right along with him. No need to drop out at all.

[Pete B.]

I would agree with the idea of playing with a band being a "musical conversation".
It's not a conversation if one person is talking endlessly, or if everyone is talking at once. I'm thinking "Listening" should probably be a noteable part of the [musical] conversation.

For the most part, imho, with 5+ members, the only instruments that really need to play from the beginning to the end of a given song are the Bass and Drums. Everyone else can trickle in and out by way of "band Dynamics", as the song calls for (for example, more banjo on Cumberland, more steel on Dire Wolf, etc).
'Just my take on it... I just don't need to hear everyone on the stage playing from the beginning to end of every song. Sounds too busy to my ear, and hinders that concept of "listening".
Kinda like... what you don't play can often be as value adding to overal band sound as what you do play.

I'm a big fan of trio's and quartets, as you get to play alot more, and you can use all kinds of dynamics and techniques on your own instrument while interacting with the ensamble without causing a musical traffic jam.

Oh yeah... The other thing that drives me nuts is not having a "plan" or a song "map" that eveyone is aware of... causing every solo to start a few seconds late because no one knows who is supposed to "take-it" next.
My rule is, if more than 2 seconds goes by after the solo was supposed to start, it's automatically a steel solo!

[Chuckles]

That's put better than I could Pete... I don't think you need to be necessarily playing the whole time, but neither should you just be sitting it out.

[BlobWeird]

Fretful Dave its not about what the band members think so much as what the audience will think. And I would certainly wanna do a dead cover band. If not then all original.

[Django]

All very good posts! Very good strummin', to add upon that; at all times the more personal involved the more important to play less than 6 note chords. It's a tough one to learn but if everyone can stay in (for the most part) their own area with smaller voicings the better. But others have said that really as well.. pause...no! not time for a steel solo! Heh heh.