[astroman99]

Simply put, Do you think the GD would have lasted as long and grew their audience without the addition of all those great Bob Hunter/Garcia songs? Specifically the addition of Hunter's LYRICS. Yes the boys can play, but would that have been enough to attrack a wider audience?

What do you think?

[Tennessee Jedi]

I was always in the Cult Of Jerry.
The lyrics are icing on the cake.

[strumminsix]

Nope.

Nor would they have grown to what they did w/o Weir.

I'm a firm believer that the GD became what it did because of each member's unique combination at the time.

I could argue that Pig was essential in the 60s and they were better off with Kieth & Donna in the 70s. Then having Brent in the 80s was essential to the raise to a new peak!

[AugustWest]

Yeah I agree with strummin every part came at just the right time. The only thing that was a detriment to their musical growth imo was the death of brent. I feel that brent wasn't done pushing the band into their full potential. I know this is hypothetical non-sense like (what if germany invented the a-bomb first) but I think the band had another peak that wasn't fully realized becuase of his death. Could you imagine the boys playing unbroken chain with brent. or a funky corina w/ brent. oh well.

[CountryMile Cadillac]

They would have been a hell of a band, but they would have never gotten to the places they did without Hunter, nor with out Barlow for that matter.
The playing was the vehicle for the lyrics and they took us all to places we never thought possible, but now days dream of finding again

[Tennessee Jedi]

Agree w/you on that Strum.You answered the question,while I digressed.
The poster asked about "Wider audiences".What drew me in was Jerry.
Also I was Thinking-"What wider audience?"Other than Touch,they have always been underground.Real alternative music.In the real world,not ours(RU KIND).
So that begs the question who brought the fans in?
I agree it was the whole psychedelic stew,not just one ingredient that made it.
Years later the lyrics are one more thing to explore,which is nice.
It boils down to Jerry.
And Let It Grow! Please please!

[jackr]

I believe it was a unique formula that all the "players" involved had a part that without any of these parts it would have been dramatically different.

That being said, I feel the only absolutely essential player was Jerry. Everyone else was replaceable including Hunter, Wier, Pigpen etc. But it would have changed the dymanics in such a way that it is impossible to predict longevity.

All of that plus the timing of the band made them great. The right people, playing the right style of music at the right time in the right place with the right attitude. That is rare and maybe lucky too. With a different attitude they may have sold more records and made more money but you asked about growing thier audience and if they cared more about album sales they wouldnt have grown the audience as much.

On a side note, I remember seeing Hunter play solo at the Other End in Greenwhich Village in New York a few times. Man it was great. The audience was only a couple of dozen people each time and it was more like play a tune or two and have back and forth discussion (question and answers) with us.

[Tennessee Jedi]

The Brent Years are my favorite.A great era for the Dead.
There used to be 2 phrases that the Dead brought into the every day lexicon-
W.A L.S.T.I.B. See that everywhere.
Cant remember the other one.Oops.

[astroman99]

I like all you guy's answers, thanks in particular and specifically without the song Bob Hunters writing on Workingmans and American Beauty, I think the Dead would have been without a record label, and both those records brought on an influx of new fans.So without a label, I don't know what would have happened.
I guess those Hunter songs just add so much depth, wisdom and magic for me , I can't imagine what the GD would have been without them, and no one loves Jer more than me
I do include Barlow lyrics too,
I mean look at the state of rock music at that time, and what was put out as lyrics.
peace out!
thanks

[Tennessee Jedi]

I like all the band members-even DONNA.Sunrise,man.
"and cuts it with a feather"
Deep stuff.

[strumminsix]

I never understood Jerry being the only irreplaceable member.

Pig was the original leader.

True, in the mid-80s to the end Jerry was the draw.

But prior I think it was a pretty even mix, IMO.

I've always believed that the musical dichotomy between Jerry and Bobby which somehow complimented one another was key to what the house that the Dead became. The other musicians where the foundation and cornerstones.

To the Jerry = GD crowd I have to ask then why did it take Jerry 20 years to get a solid club band together and gain notoriety? Do you really think he'd have gained that alone? I love JOM, JGB, Recon, etc but I the magic we see from Jerry with those club bands would have been lost had he not shone so brightly and magically with the GD. In reality it was the Deadheads who listened to JGB not JGB fans who listened to the Dead.

[spacehead333]

Wouldnt have gone as far in the pop world without hunter

[Tennessee Jedi]

You def. make some good points Strum.
The mid 80s were good to me.
I never claimed to be rational,either.
Bob and Jerry are my favorite guitar combo.I cant think of another duo that has such an original sound.
Bob is one cool cat.
Still your point about Jerry band is a little muted for me 'cause JGB wasnt a space out/jam thing like the Dead.For some that is what Dead do.
Also its kind of hard to compare the two 'cause The Dead were there at the beginning.Where Jerrys fame grew from.
Yo Strum are you planning on putting anymore vids on your myspace?Thanks again.

[jackr]

I never understood Jerry being the only irreplaceable member.

To the Jerry = GD crowd I have to ask then why did it take Jerry 20 years to get a solid club band together and gain notoriety? Do you really think he'd have gained that alone? I love JOM, JGB, Recon, etc but I the magic we see from Jerry with those club bands would have been lost had he not shone so brightly and magically with the GD. In reality it was the Deadheads who listened to JGB not JGB fans who listened to the Dead.

Without the grateful dead fans going to see Jerry without the rest of the band he may never have "caught on" there are thousands of great musicians that will die unknown.

As I said, the dead were in the right place at the right time etc. Of course the "synergy" of the band was unique and momumental. But the aura was Jerry. Even though Pig was the leader and a great draw, taking acid and listening to jerry was paramount. Although I will agree more with an arguement that in the beginning without Pig they may may not have made it.

If there was another rythm player or bass player etc they still would have made it.

Is the Allman brothers the same without Duane? No way, still a great band but not the same and they probably would have even been bigger if Duane hadnt died so young. Little Feat without Lowell George? I dont know how to explain it other then these guys all had that certain aura, like Jerry. Pig and the others didnt have that even though they were (or are) amazing.

[AugustWest]

The allman brothers aren't really a good model to base your argument here imo. I think their fan base took off without duane just fine. While myself and most on this site will say the band was never better then when they had duane allman. The truth is dickey betts songs like ramblin man, blue sky, and songs they released after duane died like melissa and midnight rider. (eat a peach has duane on it but was realeased after his death I think) really are the tunes that get the airplay and brought the band the most popularity and air timefrom the country and classic rock radio stations. I think the allman brothers are finacially better off and exposed to a wider audience after duane's passing. I think dickey betts and gregg allman are responsible for that.