[Chinadoll]

Hello family! First time poster!


So I'm trying to choose between a Tone Tubby Purple Haze

tonetubby.com/all-products/purple-haze/



A Weber California 12 alnico

tedweber.com/cali12a



Or this Missing Link Audio "Hybrid"

https://www.mlapedals.com/store/HYBRID- ... p268027069


I was planning on replacing the baffle so it will accept a 12. Any tips or recommendations on that would be badass.

I'm all about that early Jerry garcia tone, anything after 75-76 is probably pushing it, anything before 72 is really my jam.



I was considering the Milkman speakers too... Although the alnico Milkman is currently out of my budget, could it be worth saving up for?


https://milkmansound.com/collections/sp ... co-speaker

Do I really want alnico or would ceramic work?

https://milkmansound.com/collections/sp ... ic-speaker

I also posted all this on another forum, Gear Page, and they suggested to look into the Rajun Cajun 10

https://eminence.com/products/ragin_cajun

Or a celestial Gold

https://celestion.com/product/celestion-gold/


For as much as I've been reading online youde think ide have a better idea but nope. I'm not getting the sustain I'm looking for either and hopefully this would help? Anything helps, thank you!

[Chocol8]

Anything Jerry from Bear entering the mix in 1966 through 1973 would be a mix of some form of alnico JBL D-120's or the 15" D-130's. These were generally paper surrounds but later ones and recones would likely have been treated (dope) vs the earlier JBLs that were untreated paper. The history on when doling and later cloth surrounds first appeared in recones and new speakers is a bit unclear, but the dead were blowing speakers regularly so its probable Jerry had treated surrounds and possible Jerry had some cloth surrounds prior to 73, but I have seen nothing I would consider proof or even strong evidence. Most likely the era you are looking at was most or all treated paper.

Personally I think you can get pretty close to the sound with D or K series alnico JBL's even if the K's (treated cloth surrounds) are later and not exactly the same. They are still significantly closer than the Weber or Purple Haze. An E-120 or the missing link hybrid will be closer to the K-120 but the magnet and flux strength matter and they will be a bit different for pretty much the same cost and also heavy so I wouldn't bother if you have other options. The ceramics shine when you need better power handling which is not your issue with the Princeton, but was for Jerry driving 3 with the big 600w McIntosh!

If I were in your shoes, I would look for a D-120 or K-120. If you find one in need of a recone, try the following contact and ask for the magnet to be recharged along with the D style paper recone. Otherwise get the milkman. Keep in mind a D or K is identical other than the cone and MANY D's have been reconed with K or even E series cones. Thats all that was available by the mid 70's. Now you can get all paper again from the better JBL gurus so they can make a like new D out of either a D or K frame. Another note, after JBL switched to the K series in 73 or 74, Fender had them keep labeling their speakers as D-120F (essentially all JBL's sold by or distributed by Fender since the early 60's had the f and that covers other amp brands as well). These mid to late 70's D-120F's are often but not always orange frame, some are grey frame, but all are actually K-120's. The difference again is the treated cloth surround vs treated or untreated paper.

Recone:
[email protected]
619-862-8235

Also, the 12" and 15" JBL's were essentially the same motor (magnet, coil etc) jut the 15 had a bigger cone and of course frame. The 10" 110's are significantly different and would not be a good substitute. They have a different sound. Do not get a D-110 for a Princeton thinking it will give you Jerry tone. They are great speakers but not what you are after. The 10" ragin cajin and celestions are even further. That was garbage advice which is normal for the gear page these days.

[cyrusj83]

If it's any help, I have a few MLA Hybrids that I'm trying to unload. I'd sell you a MLA D120 hybrid for $225 + $25 shipping!

[Chinadoll]

Well I ended up getting a reconed grey d120f. Now I'm trying to figure out how to change out the tube rectifier for a solid state in my PR?



And I need to make a new 12" baffle... Hopefully that's easy to do?



I guess there some mods Bear Owsley did to some of Jerry's old Princeton backs in the day, and some others.



The Super Bear ha

https://analogr.com/l/61edd602-bc7b-4f8 ... 6af866e40a


Ide love to make my PR more Twinny...


Or find a way to use my new speaker by itself in like a twin head lol?

[Chocol8]

I would not change the rectifier. It will not make the amp more twin like without making a bunch of other complicated mods that will make it a much louder higher output amp. Basically you would be changing enough to scrap the PCB, change tube types etc. and make it very much not a Princeton anymore. At that point you would be better off just getting one of the 68 Pro Reverbs, but if you want to the lower volume of a Princeton, you have lost that. As for the other main mods, Jerry kelt the bright switch off, so no need to add that, and where is kelt the mids knob was not far from the fixed resistor value.

A couple things to keep in mind. 1) most of the mods were done after the era you are chasing, 2) they were largely done for road worthiness and to play louder in larger venues, not for tone, and 3) the tone related changes were mostly so the amps were cleaner for steel and as Jerry moved to getting dirt from pedals in the mid 70's.

From 66-72/3 Jerry was playing the amps hard and getting breakup from stock Fender amps. Your stock Princeton will do that better than a super bear modded one. The new baffle is relatively easy if you have the tools, either a Jasper circle jig or a larger hole saw in the right diameter for the JBL. You want to use a thicker piece of quality void free plywood because the JBL is heavy and a warped baffle will put pressure on the speaker eventually causing voice coil rub. If you aren't prepared to build one, you can find amp/cab builders who will build you one. Don't cheap out, again the JBL is heavy for a 12" speaker and has a narrower voice coil gap.

[Chinadoll]

Thank you!

[Jon S.]

I wish you the best with your mods. This being said, we've all seen people continue to throw money at a subpar-for-our-needs amp only to learn eventually that what they're really seeking is a different amp. If you're micing your PR or only using it for recording or playing it at home, have at it. But if it's not cutting it for you in ensemble settings, I'd be remiss not to note that, often, the best mod to a PR is replacing it with a DR (or even a VR).

[Jon S.]

You cannot do this to a PR - its tiny transformers can't handle it. But if you were starting with a DR, I'd have recommended also considering this:
http://acruhl.freeshell.org/mga/main/deluxemod.html

[Slewfoot2000]

@chinadoll - Sent you a PM regarding a Super Bear style Princeton Reverb.

All sounds like a fun project!

[Chinadoll]

I wish you the best with your mods. This being said, we've all seen people continue to throw money at a subpar-for-our-needs amp only to learn eventually that what they're really seeking is a different amp. If you're micing your PR or only using it for recording or playing it at home, have at it. But if it's not cutting it for you in ensemble settings, I'd be remiss not to note that, often, the best mod to a PR is replacing it with a DR (or even a VR).

Honestly at this point my thinking is I will just get a Twin, cause you can get them cheap if you time it right local, could have drove 3 hours for one the other day for 600 like new basically! Anyways, I'll get one of those and I'll take two of the tubes out, and doing that should allow me to run a twin with 1 speaker safely, and at that point I could basically use my Princeton as a cab for it if I wanted, and still use my Princeton. I like that idea, then if I wanted to work off the Princeton tubes and shit I could, and if I wanted to work off the Twin tubes and shit I also could.

My real thoughts the last couple days have been about how much different this same speaker could act being housed in a Princeton vs being housed in a twin with just 1 speaker, or if I buildt a hard trucker even. But it sounds like for the era I'm really into I would want an open back tolex deal. I'm just wondering if I'm selling myself short by putting the speaker into the Princeton and if it's going to make it sound boxy cause the Princeton is so small compared to the speaker even.

But I also think I need to make it through getting this speaker installed and played with through the Princeton before I come to any conclusions. Sometimes I spend money to quick, me getting a twin would have been that lol.

But I think it could be cool to have a twin with a couple tubes removed that I could use with this speaker as well?

Getting ready to build my new baffle today oldor the PR, speakers coming today from Dan Jamison!

Am also trying to redo the grill cloth with tie dye.... But I'm worried it will leave the speaker in a dangerous condition... Considering putting some hardware clothe over the speaker , under the tie dye.... Would hate for that to introduce rattling... Hmmm

Thanks!!

[Chocol8]

A Twin on 2 tubes and one speaker works great as it is an impedance match, but in this era, Jerry was almost always running his twins with extension cabs. That was 2 ohms off the the 4 ohm OT and it affected the tone and especially the breakup of the amp.

So just pulling 2 tubes and keeping both speakers would be more Jerry like.

The other option is the 68 Pro Reverb. Its a 2x 6L6 tube amp in a moderate sized 1x12. Better than getting a Twin to run on 2 tubes 1 speaker.

[mkaufman]

You're referring the the newer Custom Pro Reverb that's 1x12 vs. a vintage Pro Reverb that's 2x12?

ace

[Jon S.]

Another option, which I know isn't the most popular one here, is to, in John Lennon's words, free your mind instead. Two paths in this vein: (1) relax the need to sound like Jerry exactly in favor of a tone is more your own; (2) rather than buy new gear (or mod existing gear) to replicate Jerry's rig as precisely as possible, focus less on the hardware per se and more on the tone itself AKA love the gear you're with while improving your Jerry chops.

Jerry sounded as much like Jerry through a MESA as he did through a TR. Sure, the tones were not identical but that's the point. Put a non-guitarist Deadhead in a room with a guitarist who nails Jerry's riffs through a less precise rig and another guitarist who plays the usual minor pentatonic blues/rock riffs through a rig precisely like Jerry's and ask the listener which guitarist sounds more like Garcia. I call this the "turn those dials and trust your ears" approach. I know that, at times, I, too, have been too quick to rush to purchase new gear before spending some serious time experimenting further with what I already have. And a corollary in this vein: invest in a good graphic equalizer like a Boss GE-7 - you'll be amazed at what it can accomplish.

[Chocol8]

You're referring the the newer Custom Pro Reverb that's 1x12 vs. a vintage Pro Reverb that's 2x12?

ace

Either can work but the newer 1x12 is smaller, lighter, solid state rectified and is going to need less to be a close approximation of Jerry's Twins.

[Darkstar860]

Did ya get the JBL installed ? Curious what ya think of the tone