#169554  by lbpesq
 
wpmartin1979 wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:54 pm We missed this one ... only $220

The Baroni- lab Twin Preamp

https://www.baroni-lab.eu/shop/pedals/t ... in-preamp/

The 12v power requirement would be a deal breaker for me.

Bill, tgo
 #169556  by Jon S.
 
Nor am I sensitive enough to rock pink pedals. :lol:
 #169562  by wpmartin1979
 
Review #4

Mooer Two Stones Preamp > Donner Verb Square Reverb > Mooer Baby Bomb (Micro Power Amp) > JBL K120

Personally, I’ve never been too much of a fan of “micro” pedals. There is just something about the aesthetic of them that tells my brain, “no, it can’t be true, these can’t possibly sound very good, they are just too small.” It’s probably because I spent my formative years growing up during the 1980s, when bigger was better, large was in charge and louder was more best. Even given today’s technological advances, smaller hasn’t necessarily won over the hearts and minds of the new generation. Cell phones have actually progressively gotten bigger, as have televisions and cars. Deep down we seemed to be wired with an inherent lust for size. Size matters. Or does it?

In this review we will examine the question, is it possible to create a viable guitar rig that essentially fits in your pockets? That’s right, without the need for the speaker cabinet, today’s three pedals under review can all fit in your pockets. The Two Stones is a micro preamp from Mooer that replicates the tones of a Two Rock Coral amplifier. The Donner Verb Square is a micro reverb pedal that lets you choose between a wide array of verbs for any application and the Baby Bomb is another Mooer creation that powers your speakers with 30 watts of solid state power.

Let’s begin with the Two Stones. Frankly, I’ve always wanted to play a Two Rock amplifier, ever since my days living in San Francisco in the late 90s and early 2000s, frequently going to see Kimock play with KVHW at scattered spots around the Bay Area, including the Great American Music Hall in the city and the Last Day Saloon in Mill Valley. To this day, these are some of the best shows of music that I have ever seen/heard in my life. That band was absolutely the BEST! You had Bobby Vega (sly stone) on bass, Ray White (Zappa) on vocals/guitar, and the extremely talented Alan Hertz (Garaj Mahal) on drums. All backing Kimock in what I would argue was his creative prime. If you have’t had a chance to check these guys out, go to archive.org and give them a spin, there are many soundboard recordings available to choose from. But I digress.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that, at these shows I started seeing these Two Rock amplifiers. The tone was so impressive, but once I inquired to find out more about these amps the price tag ($5,000 +) basically made me forget about them. I decided that these were amps for the best of the best, not for rag tag hippie wanna bees :)

Fast forward to 2021 and this rag tag hippie wanna bee can now purchase a Two Rock amp in a micro pedal for under $80. Unbelievable! The Two Stones features two channels, a clean channel and an overdrive channel. My first impressions upon plugging in the Two Stones and tweaking the knobs was that it was too small. My fingers could barely grip the knobs because they were so tiny and I found it extremely difficult to adjust the settings of the knobs because every little turn seemed to take me so far from where I was previously. The manual says that with all knobs at noon, the preamp is set to sound the most like the actual amp, so I started there.

I found the clean tone to be nice, but a little bass heavy, so I started by reducing the low frequencies. Knowing that this was not meant to sound like a Twin, I wasn’t shooting for Jerry tone here. I was just trying to dial in what I considered to be a nice tone. After some tweaking I definitely got what I was looking for. A great sounding, uncompressed, silky smooth clean tone with sparkle and shine. It didn’t have the “vintage” sound of the other Fender like preamps that I have been messing with. Instead the tone came across as more modern and little bit thicker than the classic Fender vibe. I guess you could say that it was more Kimock than Garcia. This was great in my book, because I personally love Kimock’s tone and totally appreciate the fact that, while it ballparks the same vibe as what Garcia was doing, it really does not try to replicate Garcia’s tone at all. Kimock is Kimock, nuff said.

Where I felt that the Two Stones fell short was in the overdrive channel. It sounded very different from the clean channel. No matter how I adjusted the settings it always sounded to me like a blanket was covering the speaker. I just couldn’t shake that muddled tone. Channel two has quite a bit of drive on tap and I found it a challenge to dial in a nice clean sounding overdrive that didn’t sound muddled or compressed. I’m not sure if this is an accurate representation of the Two Rock Coral, since I have never played the amp, but I was a little disappointed because part of the potential for this pedal was to not need an extra overdrive for lead tones. I’m guessing that Kimock mostly used the clean channel of these amps and that he rarely used overdrive. Listening to Kimock, you rarely hear overridriven tones, especially when he is playing his Strat. You can definitely dial in a nice sparkle and glassy clean lead tones with the clean channel of the Two Stones, but I wouldn’t count on it for overdrive, unless you are looking for a somewhat dark and compressed tone. You can hit the clean channel with a drive pedal, though, and it does sound pretty good. But at that point the rig no longer fits in your pocket.

There was also more down side to the Two Stones. Not with the tone, but with the design. I was good in theory, but I found switching between channels to be a bit clunky. The pedal remembers the settings automatically, which is good, but if you go to tweak the settings at all, they revert back to what they were before and you get blasted with volume. I almost blew out my ears this way, so be careful. Also, you definitely need to read the manual in order to properly operate this pedal as some of the controls are not intuitive, This is the result of cramming so much into such a small space. I found myself wishing that the pedal was larger and more intuitive. I actually became a bit annoyed with the small size and found myself eventually tweaking more than I was playing, not good.

On to the Donner Verb Square. I decided to give this one a go for review because it came up on a different thread and offered a very small footprint comparable to the preamp. At $40, the pedal offers an attractive price point and a convenient footprint for pocket sized rig. However, again I felt that the attempt to pack so much into such a small space detracted from the overall effectiveness of the pedal. There were many options, but not much of an audible difference between the different verbs. The pedal definitely did an adequate job of supplying reverb though, it just didn’t add anything extraordinary or outstanding to the overall tone coming through the speakers. All in all, this pedal gets the job done if you keep it in the background and dial in a decent settings, but again, the settings are hard to dial in because the knobs are so small and narrow.

And finally the Baby Bomb power amp from Mooer. I couldn’t resist not giving this thing a try. At under $90 used, the price seemed fair and at 30 watts there is plenty of power in this thing for practice or to mic a 1X12 cab. However, after using this little guy for a while I really came to appreciate the Carvin Mach 100. The main issue with the Baby Bomb is that there is not a lot of variance in the volume control. It jumps from zero volume to LOUD right off the bat and there is no available in between for lower volumes. Then it does’t increase that much as you turn the knob to the right. Once again, this could be the result of trying to pack so much into something so small. In addition, I felt that the tone from the Baby Bomb was a bit harsh, not smooth and clear like the Carvin. Like the Donner, the Baby Bomb will get the job done and it WILL supply you with enough to power a 1X12 cab to levels that are plenty loud, but the clarity and depth of the tone is lacking, especially when compared to the Carvin Mach 100, which at merely two times the price I find to be a far superior power amp with only a slightly larger foot print than the Baby Bomb.

Does size matter? This reviewer thinks it does. While technology has definitely taken us very far and has provided many new options for guitar tone shaping, there is still some ground to be covered when it comes to micro sized pedals and amps. While there is something alluring about a viable pocket sized rig, I feel that the drawbacks tended to out weigh the benefits with this specific set up. Can it be done? Probably, but I’ll leave it to the more adventurous and ambitious and I will keep an eye out over the next couple of years for advances in this interesting and alluring market. Until then, I’m happy with my standard “MXR sized” pedals, even if it means that they don’t fit in my pocket.
strumminsix, Jon S., lbpesq liked this
 #169564  by lbpesq
 
Thanks for another outstanding review, Will. I’ve got the Valeton Coral Amp pedal coming on Saturday. Another two channel mini pedal, with eight different clean amps and eight different gain amps to choose amongst. I’m looking at both the Carvin Mach 100 and the SD Powerstage 170 power amps. Could I impose on you to give a quick head to head comparison of these two?

Also, in my research I keep reading that the Harley Benton Thunder 99 is a rebranded version of the Carvin for half the price. They do look identical other than the paint job. However, looking closer it appears the Harley Benton is 50 watts into 4 ohms and only 25 watts into 8 ohms, while the Carvin seems to be 50 watts into 8 ohms, but it’s not 100% clear. I also saw a few reviews on Thomann’s where people are getting electric shocks from the Harley Benton! That’s definitely a deal breaker for me.

Bill, tgo
wpmartin1979 liked this
 #169565  by wpmartin1979
 
Thanks Bill ... yes the Carvin is 50Wx2 at 8ohms so it’s actually 100W at 8ohms, although not sure how you would bridge into one speaker yet.
I havn’t even heard of the Harley Benton, I’ll check it out.

Would love to do a shoot out of the SD 170 vs. Carvin, but I don’t have the SD - at $300+ it’s a bit redundant for me to get yet another power amp - I do know that the Carvin is much smaller though and that the SD only has one speaker output. The SD200 has two speaker outputs though, it’s the new version of the 170.
I do know that I’m very happy with the Carvin :smile: - keep in mind I don’t need tons of power - so far the 50W has been more than plenty and I keep the level at noon.
 #169566  by strumminsix
 
wpmartin1979 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:57 pm Would love to do a shoot out of the SD 170 vs. Carvin, but I don’t have the SD
Had one for 2 weeks. Boring, snoozefest, etc. Really cool what they were looking to accomplish. But don't believe 170W and it was so bland it needs that tone stack to try and eek some excitement from it. Tested it against my TubeWorks 1160 and Crate Powerblock. The SD was last place by a mile.
wpmartin1979 liked this
 #169581  by lbpesq
 
It appears Harley Benton just came out with a 100 watt into 8ohm power amp pedal with an EQ section and internal power supply like the Powerstage for less than $100! It’s currently only available in a 220v version that would require a 220>110 converter. Looks interesting.

Bill, tgo

https://www.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_gpa_100.htm
 #169582  by wpmartin1979
 
lbpesq wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:09 pm It appears Harley Benton just came out with a 100 watt into 8ohm power amp pedal with an EQ section and internal power supply like the Powerstage for less than $100! It’s currently only available in a 220v version that would require a 220>110 converter. Looks interesting.

Bill, tgo

https://www.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_gpa_100.htm
I saw that earlier .... it does look interesting ... however ... it is Class D which means it is digital - kinda a deal breaker for me, but may be okay for others ... I guess you never know until you try but I’ve heard bad things about digital amps. Admittedly I’ve never tried one, so maybe I shouldn’t say anything negative though...could be a good one to try at that price.
 #169583  by tdcrjeff
 
Class D amp is not digital. Most if not all of these "amp-in-a-pedal" are class D. The Seymour Duncan Powerstage is, I assume the Carvin Mach100 is though I can't find a specific reference. The Quilter stuff is Class D. The Mooer Baby Bomb and EHX Magnum 44 Class D. The power amp part of the Milkman The Amp is Class D. Class D is the reason these little pedal power amps exist.
 #169585  by lbpesq
 
My Carvin DCM200L, (1U rack 100 watt/channel stereo power amp), which is thought of quite well by the Dead crowd, and, IIRC, used by others in this forum, is Class D.

Bill, tgo
 #169587  by wpmartin1979
 
Alright then ... I guess it’s all about Class D! I don’t know where I read that that meant digital ... interesting that that one amp mentions that it is Class D but none of the others actually mention that they are Class D. The Thunder 99 and Carvin Mach 100 don’t mention Class D ... confusing :shock:
Here’s some info from Analog.com
:-) Thanks for the education

The Class D Amplifier Advantage

In a conventional transistor amplifier, the output stage contains transistors that supply the instantaneous continuous output current. The many possible implementations for audio systems include Classes A, AB, and B. Compared with Class D designs, the output-stage power dissipation is large in even the most efficient linear output stages. This difference gives Class D significant advantages in many applications because the lower power dissipation produces less heat, saves circuit board space and cost, and extends battery life in portable systems.

My take:
Still I think there is a difference in sound quality between Class D and other classes of amps. I own both the Carvin 200L and a MosValve 962 and there is no comparison. If you A/B the two the MosValve KILLS the Carvin ... I mean it sounds much better. The MosValve amp is heavier and much louder (also needs a fan to cool
It although the fan is quiet) though and doesn’t work as well at lower volumes.
I assume it would be similar to A/B ing the Carvin with the McIntosh MC50.
I didn’t know the 200L was class D but now it makes sense to me why it doesn’t sound as good. I had been wondering why and if I had the settings wrong in it or something, but in switching back and forth between these these amps the 200L comes in third for sound quality.
Also, I have a Carvin HT150 that is not Class D because it has the larger and heavier innards. It is only 150 W but it also sounds much better than the 200L.
Don’t mean to burst anyone’s bubble on the 200L, but if you do the side by side comparison it is noticeable to me.
I still like the 200L for its small footprint and weight. That makes it usable and it still sounds good. Obviously I like the way the Mach 100 sounds as well.
But any amp that is not Class D will sound better, it will just be heavier and run hotter, etc.
Last edited by wpmartin1979 on Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
 #169588  by wpmartin1979
 
tdcrjeff wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:18 pm Class D amp is not digital. Most if not all of these "amp-in-a-pedal" are class D. The Seymour Duncan Powerstage is, I assume the Carvin Mach100 is though I can't find a specific reference. The Quilter stuff is Class D. The Mooer Baby Bomb and EHX Magnum 44 Class D. The power amp part of the Milkman The Amp is Class D. Class D is the reason these little pedal power amps exist.
The Baby Bomb Bill’s itself as a Digital Amp.
In other cases, some of them are digitally controlled, which I guess creates a misnomer about them being digital:

The Truth About Digital (Class D) Amplifiers


by Bruno Putzeys — August 29, 2004
Firstly I'd like to point out that "digital amps" is a misnomer. There are two categories:

Analog-controlled class D. Switching amplifiers with an analog input signal and an analog control system. Normally some degree of feedback error correction is present.
Digitally controlled class D. Amplifiers with a digitally generated control that switches a power stage. No error control is present. Those that do have an error control can be shown to be topologically equivalent to an analog-controlled class D with a DAC in front.
Both use switching power stages and have high power efficiency as their most eye-catching feature.
Last edited by wpmartin1979 on Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #169589  by wpmartin1979
 
Lol ... after a few quick searches on this topic it seems we have stumbled onto quite a big debate that has been going on for quite some time about the Class rating of amps and sound quality.

Looks like good arguments are being made on both sides, those for Class D (the wave of the future) and those against (old school
Audiophiles).

Being that I have no conviction either way I would say that it probably just depends on the amp ... what is that thing that Jon likes to say ....

If it sounds good, then it is good ... :cool:
 #169590  by strumminsix
 
wpmartin1979 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:07 am I own both the Carvin 200L and a MosValve 962 and there is no comparison. If you A/B the two the MosValve KILLS the Carvin ... I mean it sounds much better. The MosValve amp is heavier and much louder (also needs a fan to cool
It although the fan is quiet) though and doesn’t work as well at lower volumes.
MosValves are amazing. Use that presence knob. Gig volume about 11 oclock on the pres, home playing about 1. sweetness :)
wpmartin1979 liked this
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