[ker1227]

ehhhh, the way i see it is that they were both replacements for an amazing band that had obviously reached its peak by the 1990's. When i think grateful dead, and i know im not alone, bruce and vince never cross my mind. The dead knew what they wanted and didnt want, and a new "face" after brent died was not what they wanted.

[mttourpro]

As a keyboardist and serious Brent fan, Vince was never my favorite player by any means. To say he sucked is a bit much though, IMHO. True, he may not have played sounds/solos the way I'da liked him to, or the way people were accustomed to, but, that doesn't mean he sucked. Most people don't realize that Vince had a pretty heavy hand in getting them to change things up (All to Much, Baba O'Reily) and break out some of the older stuff (Here Comes Sunshine for ex.)

If he was up to high in the mix, or his vocals were overpowering,I really don't think that was his doing. They did have a sound man, right. As for stuff that might be worth a listen, check out some 93 shows with him. Actually some decent stuff if you caught the right show.

The man did have some very serious issues with chronic and severe depression and in fact did try to off himself on Ratdog's bus one tour. That was basically the end of Vince and the GD organization's relationship. From what I read, Vince made a lot of efforts after Jerry died to get the core four back together and tried real hard to make ammends and continue to play music in some form with thoses guys. From what I read, they pretty much exiled him, which of course didn't help his depression. He was apparently devestated when they didn't want him to be a part of TOO/The Dead. Couple that with a very insane marriage and a drinking problem and you know what happened.

It is truly sad to think the guy was playing huge stadiums with 80K crowds and ended up hanging out playing small gigs with bar bands. I actually feel bad for him. I get this mental image of a wounded puppy dog trying to get someone to help him....

At least he got his 15 minutes and maybe a little more.

[ker1227]

he was very talented theres no denying it

[tigerstrat]

Life already chewed Vince up and spat him out, so I doubt anyone here can say anything more hurtful or undeservedly insulting than when he was alive. Do your worst, guys, but at least you can't blame him for the demise of the Grateful Dead. That's pretty much the fault of Jerry and Brent, in that order. And I liked Samba.

[strumminsix]

As a keyboardist and serious Brent fan, Vince was never my favorite player by any means. To say he sucked is a bit much though, IMHO. True, he may not have played sounds/solos the way I'da liked him to, or the way people were accustomed to, but, that doesn't mean he sucked. Most people don't realize that Vince had a pretty heavy hand in getting them to change things up (All to Much, Baba O'Reily) and break out some of the older stuff (Here Comes Sunshine for ex.)

If he was up to high in the mix, or his vocals were overpowering,I really don't think that was his doing. They did have a sound man, right. As for stuff that might be worth a listen, check out some 93 shows with him. Actually some decent stuff if you caught the right show.

The man did have some very serious issues with chronic and severe depression and in fact did try to off himself on Ratdog's bus one tour. That was basically the end of Vince and the GD organization's relationship. From what I read, Vince made a lot of efforts after Jerry died to get the core four back together and tried real hard to make ammends and continue to play music in some form with thoses guys. From what I read, they pretty much exiled him, which of course didn't help his depression. He was apparently devestated when they didn't want him to be a part of TOO/The Dead. Couple that with a very insane marriage and a drinking problem and you know what happened.

It is truly sad to think the guy was playing huge stadiums with 80K crowds and ended up hanging out playing small gigs with bar bands. I actually feel bad for him. I get this mental image of a wounded puppy dog trying to get someone to help him....

At least he got his 15 minutes and maybe a little more.

Big +1 to all your points. But to reiterate... How can anyone blame Vince for being too high in the mix vocally or instrumentally. Hello soundguy...

Also lest we forget that part of the reason he was louder was that he was compensating for somebody who was lacking.

Comparing the Vince to others is tough. Vince came in with a rich history as a musician. None before had the fame Vince had prior to the dead.

[shakedown_04092]

Life already chewed Vince up and spat him out, so I doubt anyone here can say anything more hurtful or undeservedly insulting than when he was alive. Do your worst, guys, but at least you can't blame him for the demise of the Grateful Dead. That's pretty much the fault of Jerry and Brent, in that order. And I liked Samba.

'bout fucking time someone said it like that, thank you TS. For fuck's sake guys, cut him some slack . Whoever said he sucks, I'd like to see you do better. Unbelieveable, man.

I'll say there were times where Vince would make me roll my eyes, but I did like some of his grooves, songs, and sounds he brought to the band.

[jck_strw]

I'm the one that said Vince sucked. And I stand by it. Perhaps I could be a bit more charitable and say, 'his addition to the band was unpleasing to my ear and caused me minor distress'. But I won't. He sucked. And I can't do any better as a musician. Not even close. But I'm a critic like everyone else and the last thing a critic needs is any talent of his own. :) He was a very talented musician, I'm sure. You don't get to be in a huge group like the Dead without having some chops.

I don't attribute his suckiness to being too loud in the mix, that's the sound guy. He just didn't have much interesting to say, I thought. Granted I've listened to very little Vince-era stuff, but what I've heard seriously turned me off.

Like I said, Vince had it hard in a variety of ways and it's sad to see what happened. But ignoring all of that and concentrating on what he did when he was on stage left me with a 'this sucks' attitude.

YMMV.

[deadguise]

I'm just posting this so everyone can see a picture of Vince. (I also want to advance in the avatar chain)

[cuznt]

I want to go see Bruce too but he never comes around the Cleveland area for some reason. Funny, he played my old High School in Wisconsin last October but I couldn't swing it because I had a wedding to attend.

As far as Vince goes, I heard he suffered from issues before he even joined the Dead, that whole situation just made things worse. I didn't care for him but i do feel awful about the whole suicide thing.

i saw bruce in albany before ratdog. they were in the former nick/pepsi now times union. and not even half the areana was filled. I like bruce and the sound was very very poor. a poor choice of venues imo but thats a lame duck. we left while bobby was in his first set. no doubt about Vince being a tortured soul. I think suicide is such a waste. we are all humnan after all. I think of addiction as slow suicide at times too... i also agree that it is what made them the grateful dead, and even after the last other ones before they became the dead again.. it was somehow refreshing. I mean terrapin reunion was such an unexpected blessing.. i wish bruce was there.

kind of off subject i know. the feelings are so strong of NOT liking Vince it makes me feel really ashamed somehow. I myself am a musician who has addicts for band mates and now one in prison. Music is a very strange bedfellow.

[deadguise]

??? ooops, too late...

[HawaiianDedhed]

I seem to remember going to shows at Shoreline and Oakland near the end, where it was Vince who energized the rest of the less than totally inspired band.

From someone who only saw the Vince era in person, I'm not an authority on the subject, but I sure as hell would jump on a plane right now to go see the Grateful Dead with Vince Welnick on keys.

[jck_strw]

From someone who only saw the Vince era in person, I'm not an authority on the subject, but I sure as hell would jump on a plane right now to go see the Grateful Dead with Vince Welnick on keys.

Here here.

"A bad day of Vince is better than a good day of work."

[HawaiianDedhed]

Sorry about the double post. Anyway, I figured I'd look up Mr. Welnick and found this on Wikipedia. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, well. . .

"Few fans understood that Vince really wanted to play piano and organ, the same one played by Brent, but that the band members insisted that he not. Vince was not in charge of what sounds were played during shows, it was MIDI-wizard Bob Bralove, behind the curtain, deciding which tones to use for Vince, as well as Jerry's MIDI guitar. Some fans took it out on Vince, saying he played cheesey synth sounds, when he may have just been hearing piano in his monitors."

[shakedown_04092]

Wow, weird....I didn't know that.

[cuznt]

I'm just posting this so everyone can see a picture of Vince. (I also want to advance in the avatar chain)

what picture....
i know it is morning and i have not had my morning doob yet... but please tell me you forgot to post the pic...