When it doesn't fit anywhere else
 #128468  by ebick
 Wed May 29, 2013 10:05 pm
So, I have a jam group that is kind of open. I guy joined it recently, and i have some issues with him. The most important one being that he is disingenuous. He's seems like he's always trying to prove he belongs. The fact is that he's a decent player and he has plenty of musical knowledge, so there is absolutely no reason for him to do what he does. So what is it that he does?

The first time he and I got together, the first song I chose was Friend Of The Devil. He said he had never heard it before. The first time he came to one of the group jams, we again played FOTD. He responded that again, it was a song he did not know, completely forgetting it from when we played it. Yet, when I make the comment about being a huge fan of the Dead, he jumps right in with, "oh yeah, me too". Same thing happened when i mentioned being a hard core Zappa fan. I would bet my entire guitar collection he can't name 5 songs by FZ (hey, a couple made it on the radio....maybe he knows Dancin Fool and Valley Girl). Same thing again with Yes.

I don't ask much, but i expect people to be real, and I know if I call him on it, the truth will come out and he will likely be embarrassed and/or humiliated. I don't necessarily want that, but I'm having real issues letting this go on.
 #128470  by Gr8fulGreg
 Wed May 29, 2013 10:55 pm
Id let it be brother... From the outside of reading what you read it sounds like the guy really wants to fit in and play with some people... the claims to being a dead fan and not knowing FOTD is also probably to try and gain respect.... If anything id kindly burn a CD for him and suggest he listen to it with a "hey man you should check this out its really good stuff" line as to not come off rude... i understand about being "real" with people and if i showed up to a jam with people who want to play metallica and i am "the new guy" id just try to have fun.. im sure he means no disrespect
 #128472  by ebick
 Wed May 29, 2013 11:18 pm
I hear what you're saying, I'm just at the point where whenever the guy says something, I don't know whether to believe it or not, but I've been leaning more towards not lately. I also want to mention that this is not some young kid who's just trying to fit in....this guy's older....50's.....he's been around. And like I said, his musical knowledge for the stuff that I know he actually does know about and truly like is vast and stands on it's own. I just want to tell the guy to stop being so damn insecure. I didn't mean to give the impression that I just want to tear into the guy. I really just want to say, "you're a fine player, you know plenty about music history, don't profess to be something you're not".

And I would be happy to burn him a CD of anything that I'm into, lord knows I've done that for others plenty of times. But like I said, I don't really know if he actually likes the stuff and would be interested or not. I know that he would tell me his is because he would think that's what I want to hear.
 #128473  by Chuckles
 Thu May 30, 2013 12:48 am
So, is this just for a jam night or something? If so, NBG - let it slide.

But if this is for a "maybe we can put a band together out of this thing" situation... Seems to me, you've answered your own question! (Great when that happens; demonstrates the inner-you as actually knowing how to channel your energy!).

Anyway. Just be straight with the guy. Tell him you enjoy playing with him, but tell him it seems he doesn't know some of this stuff he says he does, but that you are psyched if he's into learning it in the band context. Ask him if he's really into this stuff, tell him it's cool and point him to some resources.

If it's just casual, though, I guess the question is can he handle himself w/the other players?Simple enough. If not, disinvite him.
 #128519  by ebick
 Thu May 30, 2013 6:36 am
Chuckles wrote:So, is this just for a jam night or something? If so, NBG - let it slide.

But if this is for a "maybe we can put a band together out of this thing" situation.
So, here's yet another area of not being forthright. When I first talked to him, he made it clear that he was looking to "put a trio together and do some gigs". I have told him repeatedly that my first priority is to have fun an enrich myself, and that if gigging came out of that, that would be a bonus. The last few times I have said that, he responds, "me too". He's full of shit. There's myself and one other guy in this "casual jam" that he keeps hinting to about, "you know the three of us ought to get together"......

On that note, there is some material that we connect musically on, other stuff not. But this issue about him personally is the biggest roadblock to me doing anything with him. The third person feels the same. He keeps pushing it and I just think at some point my true feelings are going to come out.
 #128521  by Pete B.
 Thu May 30, 2013 7:14 am
I don't know all the details, but...
I don't think I would have pursued a musical relationship with someone who didn't know Friend of the Devil.
If a player hasn't been playing DeadHead songs for years and years like I have, I don't want to invest the time, even if they are a great player otherwise.

Possibly similar... I was invited to a local jam of guys who all play in different bands, and one of the guys was a major Little Feat head.
Kinda like your story, I said, Me Too!... Then he expected me to know Tripe Face Boogie off the top of my head. He probably thought I was full of shit for saying that, but I do like a lot of Little Feat, but in reality I can only really name maybe 6 song titles and have only really played Willin and Dixie Chicken, maybe Fat man in the Bathtub (is that different from Dixie Chicken?... I can't remember right now).

Just curious... What kind of Trio were you envisioning with this guy?
What Dead songs did say he knows?
 #128522  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu May 30, 2013 7:54 am
>>> band-mate rant <<<<
IMHO playing with non heads sucks - IF you are playing Dead .....

A pet peeve of mine is guys who arent heads who want to jam but after awhile insist on non-dead tunes - Symphony For The Devil type stuff - just kills the vibe IMHO
All DEAD All THE TIME my ads on C.L. say -its not too complicated !
Sheesh !

Good luck Ed
 #128523  by ebick
 Thu May 30, 2013 8:15 am
Pete and Tenn.....First let me say that this situation that I am talking about, this casual jam is by no means a "Grateful Dead" thing. I know there are folks here who just want to play Dead, that was me many years ago, I like lots of different music and I sprinkle Dead stuff in with this group.

The point is that when I say "Here's a Dead tune", and this guy who doesn't know thing one about the Dead says', "I'm a huge fan of the Dead".....I have to hold back saying, "give me a break, don't lie, you don't know anything about them".

And Pete......I think you misread something somewhere....I am not the one pursuing a trio.....HE IS.
 #128524  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu May 30, 2013 8:35 am
Could be he is just trying to be upbeat and positive about the project ?
Its been awhile but I used to make cds of the versions of the tunes I wanted to do and hand them out at practice
Peps can listen to it in their car - then there is no excuse !
 #128526  by ebick
 Thu May 30, 2013 8:54 am
Tennessee Jedi wrote:Could be he is just trying to be upbeat and positive about the project ?
I can say almost absolute certainty that, no, I don't think that's it.

Jimmy Kimmel did this spot once at this music festival...he was talking about these kids that went to it and desperately needed to appear cool and in the know. He had a reporter asking them about how excited they were to be seeing some of the bands......only thing was he was making up bands...

"So, what about 'Regis and the Philbins'?"

"oh, yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing them....they have such a good vibe"

it's really more like that......lol
 #128527  by jkstraw
 Thu May 30, 2013 9:00 am
My first reaction is to say - be kind, but do what you need to do to enjoy making music. Life is too short and if I had to hazard a guess - if this guy knew how he made you feel he wouldn't want to jam either - no one wants to be "that guy" (if he does....it becomes a really easy decision!).

Now that is only my reaction - I am in a similar situation and approach it a little differenetly - I am in my first Dead band and the personality conflicts are driving me nutz! If I were LESS selfish I would just walk away and keep doing things the way I always have.....but I WANT the experience of playing in a full on Dead loving band. So I bite my tongue and soldier on in the hope that things will get better and if they don't I know I am at least getting something out of it.

So I guess if you were to ask my opinion - I would ask you right back -"Are you getting enough out of jamming with the guy to make it worth it?" If yes -> let it be, if no -> be kind but change things up so you're happy.

P.S. I would never call the guy out - just can't see anything good coming from that for either of you.

Best of luck bro! Hope it all works out. :cool:
 #128528  by Pete B.
 Thu May 30, 2013 9:01 am
It sounds like this is really bugging you so I would take care of the issue one way or other, asap.
If you want to keep playing with the guy, then you have to call him and tell him exactly what you are feeling... Something like... "Hi Joe, Listen Man, I'm sensing "this", and it's really bugging me, can you please tell me what you are really thinking so we can resolve "this" and move forward with our jam."
"Listen man, I've been doing this jam thing long enough to know when I'm not jelling with another player, please understand I don't want to burn any bridges, you're a good player, but I'm not really interested in doing a Trio, and I would like to rotate in some other players who I think are more on the same page with my musical background."

Keep in mind, being "a Huge fan of the Dead" has nothing to do with being able to play Dead songs on guitar.
The guy may not be lying or even full of shit.
Probably 99% of people who ever saw the Dead don't even play an Instrument, but would say they are Huge Fans.
Last edited by Pete B. on Thu May 30, 2013 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #128529  by mgbills
 Thu May 30, 2013 9:02 am
For me it always boils down to what a person brings to the table...and whether or not they add energy to the group.

People say thoughtless stuff all the time. It's a human thing. Mostly I can blow that off. I'm a loud obnoxious Yankee who now resides in the West. I probably spout crap that pisses people off all the time.

I play regularly with my son, a buddy who plays bass, another buddy who sits in on cajon. We play Dead stuff, and whatever folk/other stuff folks are feeling at the time. My wife is now sitting in occasionally with her Uke.

We're all of the temperament that if the song is good, and of a generally open format that we'll play it & jam it till it dries up. This is a good bit of fun. No egos really. I, of course, probably annoy the crap out of everybody with my desire to play Dead tunes. But I don't carry an expectation that anybody has the Bobby part down. And guess what...everyone constantly contributes cool stuff, either accidentally or intentionally. And lo & behold...some very Bobby, Jerry, Phil type stuff evolves. I'm looking for the groove, not a perfect cover. For my own practice, I add Dead-isms...but thats because facinates me.

Last year I also sat in with some guys that are playing about 40% Dead covers locally. Totally annoying. Both the keyboard player, and the (Loud-Ass) drummer had been in Dead cover bands before. Not a good group at all. It did yield some fair (C grade) Dead numbers, but ultimately wasn't very productive. They're still at it. I shipped myself.

So...after that ramble...Does he work with the groove? If not...probably best to wait for somebody who adds energy to the prospect.

My 2 cents. Peace
 #128532  by ebick
 Thu May 30, 2013 9:55 am
Pete B. wrote:Keep in mind, being "a Huge fan of the Dead" has nothing to do with being able to play Dead songs on guitar.
The guy may not be lying or even full of shit.
Probably 99% of people who ever saw the Dead don't even play an Instrument, but would say they are Huge Fans.
I'm not really sure where this is coming from......I certainly don't think that you need to be able to play Grateful Dead music on an instrument to be a fan. But I would think that huge fan would have heard the song Friend Of The Devil before. Additionally, it has been my experience that when I meet a true, fellow Deadhead, we talk about things Grateful Dead.....the conversation about the Dead stops (for him) immediately after "I'm a huge fan". And that's kind of what I have been saying.....I have tried to push it a little bit before and it's quite apparent he just has no knowledge. I've never put him on the spot, but I have given him ample opportunity to prove me wrong.
 #128534  by hogan
 Thu May 30, 2013 10:19 am
dude, just move on. project this same situation onto some one you were trying to date. There would be no 2nd date, there shouldn't have been one in this case either.