[Jimkkc]

For the sake of curiosity/discussion - how many of us here play primarily Dead and dead related covers? and how many of us here play primarily original material? It seems that threads that discuss how to play dead songs and threads relative to how to make us "sound" more like the dead tend to be quite popular. And I am not even sure if there has been a thread here that discusses songwriting.

Don't get me wrong - I play my share of Dead and Dylan, but I am also interested in the songwriting process. How do you go about that process? For me, my lyrics don't really sound "dead" (whatever that is supposed to be); however, the music I set my lyrics to is definitely influenced by the dead.

If you are in a band, what is the percentage of cover materials to originals? If the band I am in were to perform tonight, our set would probably have more covers than originals, but we are working our way towards more originals.

Just curious and for a change I have a day with too much time on my hands!

[phreaker]

I play mostly Dead. I write, but not too much. So when I'm not with my band, or writing something on my own, I play my favorite band's songs. Who of course are the Grateful Dead.

[shakedown_04092]

Right now, I am playing more covers than originals in our band.

I was in a band, that broke up last month, that was all originals (actually, we did have 2 covers: So Lonely, & Ziggy Stardust). The thing that was really hard about the originals was learning them. Being that we were only in the practice space 2x/week, sometimes 1x/week, it got hard and compunded.

I've found that covers are much easier to play because (generally) everyone in the band "knows" how the song goes, and from there, it's just learning the chords/lyrics, and then adding your own touch. It takes a lot longer to do that with originals.

With originals, they take on a form for themselves, in a way. The person who brings the original to the band has an idea of how they want it to go, but once you give it to others, they start interpreting it for themselves, which I think is a good and healthy process.

Bobby once said something along the lines of always knowing that when he wrote a song, he knew that once he brought it to the band, it wasn't going to come out the exact way he intended it to because he had 5 other people's creative minds changing and shaping the song as it matured.

More on this later, I gotta go...

[Trystine]

I play a lot of dead and dylan but I am big into songwriting. You can definetly see my influences in the lyrics/music. I write because I want something new and fun to sing. Like, I love when I'm walking around the house or something and all of a sudden I start into a verse of Mission in the Rain or whatever.
The thing about the Dead's songs/lyrics is that the words really are fun to sing. So, that's what I'm after...to create something that is fun to sing, you know, fun just to say the words. I feel like I'm on to something when I catch myself in my car singing my own songs or I hear my wife belt out a few of my lyrics in the shower.

[amyjared]

I've found that covers are much easier to play because (generally) everyone in the band "knows" how the song goes, and from there, it's just learning the chords/lyrics, and then adding your own touch. It takes a lot longer to do that with originals.

I'm in a band that plays all covers because of the same reason. We are all over 40 and have lives and it's a bitch to try and coordinate schedules. We only get to jam every other week or so, so we concentrate on learning songs that we know and it makes it easier. I'm thinking of introducing some of the songs I've written, but it's been plenty fun just dealing with the covers.

[wisedyes]

Tips on songwriting? Well, for starters, listen to lots of different songwriters and their styles. DEFINITELY seek out those that have a strong sense of melody; most contemporary music is extremely weak melodically. People don't hum chord progressions, know what I mean? What catches one's ears is the melody, period.

Beyond that, there is actually alot of technical stuff you can learn about it that would help immensely. Learn about the chords in a diatonic progression for both Major and minor keys, how they inter-relate with each other, how they can be used to set up key changes, etc. Learn about the circle of fifths and the cycle of fourths, about secondary dominants, about really common and standard chord progressions ( like the ii-V-I in jazz, or the I-VI-ii-V in pop ); this stuff turns up all the time for a reason, after all.

One of the most rewarding things I have ever done musically was to purchase a Real Book, ( a jazz standards colection ), and really spend lots of time analyzing the songs. How did the melody line fit over the underlying chords, what sort of harmonic devices were being used ( like standard chord progressions, cycle of fourth progressions, etc ), things like that. Very hard work at first, but you will learn more about MUSIC and songwriting from that than anything else you can do. And, to be a good songwriter, you have to think as a musician, and not as a guitarist. Garcia himself even did most of his writing on piano.

Hope this was of some help to you. Also, a string of bad relationships, broken hearts, some serious substance abuse and no money probably helps too.

[Jimkkc]

Shakedown - I hear ya about the covers being easier to learn. We rehearse once a week, so there is not too much time. And as is probably the case for most of us on this discussion board, the places we play and the people we play for are more than likely more interested in covers anyway!

That said, it is fun to take a song and build it up from the ground. I am also lucky because the folks I play with have written much prior to our getting together - so, alot of originals were already written. Like two weekends ago, we put together an original where the opening riff starts on the two and not the one - it just took us a few hours to figure that out. But the few hours helped develop band chemistry as well as musical chops! As far as lyrics go - I am hardly prolific! I would like to do more and truthfully, my day job gives me quite a bit of free time - now, I just need motivation!

Hey phreaker - since you are in Lawrence, do you ever get to Kansas City? If so, you should check out local songwriters Forrestt Whitlow and Bob Walkenhorst - both are very good; perhaps, the best (whatever that means) in the KC metro . . .

[jahozer]

I play mostly covers. I have a few songs that I wrote looooong ago.
My ideal is a band that is mostly cool covers and a few originals. I was in a band in VT that was mostly original but had a good share of covers...dead and whatnot. What made that band successful were the two front men were great performers singers and tune smiths. They wrote really catchy danceable rock songs, so the audience was not forced to endure the sort of self indulgence some of these bands inflict on their listeners.
There is nothing worse than sitting through some poignant political or sappy love song that drags down a set. Or some drugdey college alt band.

Thats why I like playing jam band stuff (particularly Dead) is because you can set up for improv. You can put your own spin on the covers. Even take familiar bar songs somewhere else. The jam crowd is a really open audience and encourages you to go for things in your own way.

The trouble is getting started at the local bar and they are pissed because they have not heard the same Bad Co. or ACDC covers they do every other Saturday Night. I believe that most non deadheads would really like hearing the Dead if nobody told them who it was. Some people just hear the name and convince themselves that they hate it. But luckily the jam scene will come out of the woodwork eventually and the little girls will dance!

The other reason I do not play covers is that especially here in the Philly burbs, it means playing for free on a Thursday night for an hour tops... TO NOBODY.

I get a kick out of how snooty some of the original bands can be on some of the boards out there. I like to play.

There is also a general snootiness against the Dead and jam music from other musicians. Most of the Deadhead players I know will play circles around your average 3 minute 12 bar blues afficianados.

[jahozer]

boy I wish we could edit our posts!!!
I mean not play originals
and
drudgey
IT is set up for improv
and all the other dumb grammar mistakes I just made.

[phreaker]

Jim, I've def. heart of Forest. Don't know where, but I do know that name. I've been getting more and more into some of the local bands.

It's kinda hard to get too into that stuff here in Lawrence. Too many hipsters and Bright Eyes. Kind of annoying.

[eyeprod]

I spent many years learning and playing all of my favorite songs from my favorite bands. now I write my own songs for a trio I'm leading, and have to play them every day in order to stay on top of them. It was all the years of learning other people's songs that led me this point of being able to write songs that people like and I enjoy playing and singing. Yeah, I have to be a singer now too even though it was always something I shied away from. So now I have this band who likes and learns my stuff, follows my lead, and listens to what I tell them to do. Well mostly. That's why I have to practice all the time and kick ass when performing my own tunes. It's one thing to play the changes all the way through, but it's another to do it with alot of energy and passion every time. Reminds me of a favorite adjective often used to describe GD shows...perfunctory. There is a difference. Oh and btw, I now that I got over the singing thing I can really belt out some good versions of pigpen tunes like easy wind. alot of fun. Pigpen is a big influence on my singing.

[eyeprod]

for songwriting I have a few ways of making up tunes and most of them start with one basic idea and need a little time to develop. Once in awhile a nearly complete song will just come out. The main thing I learned to think of is melody. I can start messing around with some basic technique, guitar part based on chord changes or a mode/scale, but what holds any idea together for me is melody. What I do is use alot of vocal jibberish type lyrics to articulate whatever melody is coming to me. Sometimes a word or actual phrase that makes sense will just come out. I go alot on intuition and feel. That little melody will help to cement the idea into my head and allow me to remember just exactly what it was I was doing with those 3 notes , chords or whatever. Having a melodic hook also facilitates the jamming or solos and such.

I'll structure alot of songs very simply. Not so simple as straight 1-4-5 chord changes or 12 bar blues, but I will use those basic elements in ways that make sense and that usually sounds good to most people because it's predictable. When working with blues rock, I try and do it alot like hendrix. A unique riff and some fairly predictable changes based around the theme riff. I never wrote much folky stuff, but what I did write usually also follows classic progressions to some degree.

[Jimkkc]

Phreaker - Forest used to front a band called Crash -If I remember right they were billed as Forest Whitlow and The Crash - He is solo now; and unfortunately, not playing out too much - as far as I know he is on the Boarders Bookstore circuit. Once I made the trek to Overland Park to see him - only one other person in attendance - thankfully, the other person was a good buddy! Walkenhorst plays Wednesday nights at The Record Bar in Westport from 7-9. Ususally, a three dollar cover. His is a three piece band - great originals, kick-ass lead player, great show. Some guy records all of the performances as puts them on archive.org. Definitely not the dead but very cool stuff.

I agree with the notion that dead/jam players can play circles around most others - I don't think it because we play, listen, and enjoy inherently "better" music, but because to play the dead, phish, wsp, etc, one has to have big ears and "get" music on a whole other level than it takes to play "leaving on a Jet Plane" or "She Shook Me All Night Long."

[acidrain30005]

I'm in a trio with a friend and my brother. When the whole band plays live or rehearses, we play originals with a few covers. But when me and my brother rehearse together, we do mainly Dead tunes.

[BlobWeird]

I have no real band but I play lead and i got a friend who plays rhythm and a friend who plays bass so we jam alot. All we play is dead. They dont wanna play anything else. When I jam by myself I play an array of stuff. None of it originals but I have got a few originals but theyre all instrumentals. I never could come up with any lyrics that I thought truly sounded good. I mean id come up with a line or two but could never get a whole solid piece.