[playingdead]

Well ... those are tough questions. I think if you relegate yourself to the Super II coil cut in the middle position, you have a lot of Jerry's ground covered. There's a lot of experimenting you could do with bridge pickups that are splittable looking for Gilmour's tone -- I thought he used a neck pickup a lot but I'm really not that versed with his gear at all. The Super II in the middle will get you an 80s JGB tone, but for the 79-80 JGB tone I like the Super II bridge as a humbucker. I gave that up with the Walker and don't really miss it in the context of the Dead band.

I play everything through the AxeFX now, so I can easily switch between amp types and speaker types, using custom IR files of my own cabinets with JBLS and various other speakers ... lately I've been liking V30s through an Orange 4X12 cabinet.

Speaking of Gilmour ... here's a brief recording a guy named Jocce in Spain did playing through the AxeFX Ultra direct along to some backing tracks. I have his preset for that somewhere ... he used a James Tyler strat into a HiWatt amp block and a 4X12 Engl cabinet block IR loaded with Celestion V30s. Digitally, of course! I'd say he has that tone pretty well knocked!

http://www.jocce.net/CrazyD.mp3

Hi Vic ..... do you mind if I ask you a couple of quick questions .. going back to your pup choices in the Walker .. which is an amzing piece of work by the way .. I started an earlier thread touching on exploring pickup choices to get different sounds out of a Tiger I am having made and you hit on pretty much what I was wanting to find out when you described the range of sounds you can get from the Walker. I don't have a problem with putting non Jerry pups in my Tiger as long as I can get Jerry tone somewhere in there. I am listening now to Roosevelt Stadium 73' and that is a tone I'd be happy to be with ... as well as the 80's JGB .. Can you get that from your middle pickup.
Also .. can you get a Dave Gilmour Comfortably Numb tone out of your combination .. I can see where the Gibson tones are coming from and I was considering a humbucker in the neck .. but you have one in the bridge as well.
Last quick question .. if I may .. . Do you play the Walker through the E/K 120,s ... or do you find they are too clear and sharp to get that Gibson sleaze .. ( for want of a better word!) ... do you use other speakers like the classic Celestions as well.
The whole aim is NOT to have my Tiger as a one trick pony .. but to be able to cover a range of classic tones ..
Cheers ... Brian

[tigerstrat]

I can tell you first hand (and I play a fair amount of gigs to a fair amount of people, a lot more than some, and a lot less than many). From a gigging and performance standpoint almost nobody gives a shit how close someone is to Jerry's tone or Bobby's tone, or Phil's.....WE care as Deadheads and musicians about "getting it right" but if you think the majority of the crowd at a DSO show or Zen Tricksters show or any other Dead band that draws cares at that level of detail, I think you are mistaken. That is NOT what is putting people in the room. A lot of us sit on the internet and critique how close this guy is to nailing it, or that guy is to missing it, and we comb over the minutiae. Guess what, those ARE NOT the people that are paying money to come out and see you play. The people who come out to see you play, come to do so to see good music played with passion and conviction. They come to dance, they come to hang with friends to have a good time. They come to be part of something. The come to hear alternative ways of playing music to what is out there today. They do NOT come to see who has the closest Super 2 split single-coil sound.

Bravo!

[deepelem]

Speaking of Gilmour ... here's a brief recording a guy named Jocce in Spain did playing through the AxeFX Ultra direct along to some backing tracks. I have his preset for that somewhere ... he used a James Tyler strat into a HiWatt amp block and a 4X12 Engl cabinet block IR loaded with Celestion V30s. Digitally, of course! I'd say he has that tone pretty well knocked!

http://www.jocce.net/CrazyD.mp3

The whole aim is NOT to have my Tiger as a one trick pony .. but to be able to cover a range of classic tones ..
Cheers ... Brian

Wow ... your'e damn right he has that tone knocked !! . ...... are any of those backing tracks available anywhwere or do you have more links to his stuff ... thanks for that.
Gilmour uses a Seymour Duncan SSL-5 bridge pup .. and does not seem big on the middle pick up .. so I think I'm getting a start on where to go here ... The neck pick up is going to take some more thought. Thanks a lot for your thoughts.

But regarding chasing the Jerry tone .... Jeffm has it absolutely right in his great previous post ........ but hell .. what's wrong with playing around getting some decent gear together and then seeing how far we can take it .. therein lies madness ,.. hahaaaaagghhhhh ..!!

[jeffm725]

But regarding chasing the Jerry tone .... Jeffm has it absolutely right in his great previous post ........ but hell .. what's wrong with playing around getting some decent gear together and then seeing how far we can take it .. therein lies madness ,.. hahaaaaagghhhhh ..!!

Absolutely NOTHING! I am and was and always will be as guilty as the next guy for chasing that sucker! I have a basement full of gear and a very angry wife to prove it! For me though, the self-pesrpective I mentioned in that post has taken some of the pressure off that I put on myself and allowed me to actually enjoy the chase for what it is (to me and for me).

[deepelem]

But regarding chasing the Jerry tone .... Jeffm has it absolutely right in his great previous post ........ but hell .. what's wrong with playing around getting some decent gear together and then seeing how far we can take it .. therein lies madness ,.. hahaaaaagghhhhh ..!!

Absolutely NOTHING! I am and was and always will be as guilty as the next guy for chasing that sucker! I have a basement full of gear and a very angry wife to prove it! For me though, the self-pesrpective I mentioned in that post has taken some of the pressure off that I put on myself and allowed me to actually enjoy the chase for what it is (to me and for me).

Haha ,, I'm lucky! .. don't have a wife anymore so it's all in my living room ... and that's where it's stayin But Yeh that is a good point about getting that perspective to take the pressure off ... I know some of my "half" mates will give me a few stares when the new axe comes out .. and there will be a few who come out with remarks like "who's he kidding" or trying to be !! .. cos I'm no gigging muso ,.,. strictly home based and a few jams with mates bands who will let me up for a song or two ... haha! ... But we are in this world to be happy and please ourselves and just maybe .. do a bit of good for others as well ........ So I'm in this for the pleasure it gives me and one never knows .. I might make it onto a stage one of these days .. yayhayy ..

[playingdead]

Wow ... your'e damn right he has that tone knocked !! . ...... are any of those backing tracks available anywhwere or do you have more links to his stuff ... thanks for that.

Backing tracks are here (the one mentioned before -- http://www.jocce.net/CrazyD.mp3 -- is among them, dunno how good the others are):

http://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=64

Not too much by Jocce, but here are a couple more:

A little country Brad Paisley riff with some backing drum tracks and two Telecasters:

http://www.jocce.net/Start_a_band.wav

That clip convinced me to buy the AxeFX.

Same guy plays with the "Tweed" amp and 808 drive block with drum tracks and bass: http://www.jocce.net/AxeTweed.mp3

Same guy does some crunch metal stuff: http://www.jocce.net/Downhill3.mp3

[TRG]

The people who come out to see you play, come to do so to see good music played with passion and conviction.

Bingo.

I'm always chasing the sound myself, but what you've stated above is utlimately what it all comes down to. Just my $.02.

[deepelem]

Wow ... your'e damn right he has that tone knocked !! . ...... are any of those backing tracks available anywhwere or do you have more links to his stuff ... thanks for that.

Backing tracks are here (the one mentioned before -- http://www.jocce.net/CrazyD.mp3 -- is among them, dunno how good the others are):

http://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=64

Not too much by Jocce, but here are a couple more:

A little country Brad Paisley riff with some backing drum tracks and two Telecasters:

http://www.jocce.net/Start_a_band.wav

That clip convinced me to buy the AxeFX.

Same guy plays with the "Tweed" amp and 808 drive block with drum tracks and bass: http://www.jocce.net/AxeTweed.mp3

Same guy does some crunch metal stuff: http://www.jocce.net/Downhill3.mp3

I just realised what you were saying there ... Jocce got that Gilmour (and the other) tone(s) using the Axe FX .. it didn't sink in at first until I googled it and read some reviews ... Jeez ... who wants to buy some pedals haha! Is it really that good ?? have you done away with effects pedals completely .. ?

[playingdead]

Don't want to get too far off track on the original poster's question ... and how did we get this far afield anyway? ... but yes, I think it's that good and it's all I play through with the Dead band, direct to the board. This is my Resurrection Tiger live through it a few months ago.



We now take you back to the replica discussion

[Jon S.]

I am listening now to Roosevelt Stadium 73' and that is a tone I'd be happy to be with ...

Cheers ... Brian

I believe I was there but, truth be known, I'm not certain anymore of the year I caught my Roosevelt Stadium Show (after a while, they start "blending"). I do recall that the show was supposed to be on a Saturday night. I drove over with some friends from Long Island. The drive there was through a ghetto (Roosevelt Stadium was where the old Negro League Giants played - not in the richest part of town - though it had heart). The tickets said "Rain or Shine." Well, naturally, it rained. The stadium floor was a f-ing mud puddle with people dancing in the mud like piggies. I particularly remember one very obese guy dancing like a dervish because I started peaking then and it was so totally absurd! The Dead came out, plugged in, and then left the stage. A guy came out to say the show was being cancelled due to the wetness. The crowd got nasty, thousands of people screaming in unison, "Rain or shine. Rain or shine." Bob came out to personally apologize and explain it was because one of the band members was shocked could have died. Someone in the audience threw a bottle at Bob and hit him. I don't know if it was Hells Angels but a bunch of burly guys in colors jumped off the stage and beat the living shit out of the bottle thrower. It really was a nasty scene. We'd been planning to camp out after the show but were so bummed we just hung around for several hours until we could function again and drove home. But the cool part was there were guys handing out rain checks on the way out and each of my group got 2 each so when we returned the following Tuesday night our group had doubled! And the make-up show was wonderful.

[Jon S.]

... and ultimately, no one has his exact touch or technique, so there's only so far you can get, even if you have Irsay's Tiger in your hands.

The older I get and the longer I play the more I find that to be the case.

ooo

I can tell you first hand (and I play a fair amount of gigs to a fair amount of people, a lot more than some, and a lot less than many). From a gigging and performance standpoint almost nobody gives a shit how close someone is to Jerry's tone or Bobby's tone, or Phil's.....WE care as Deadheads and musicians about "getting it right" but if you think the majority of the crowd at a DSO show or Zen Tricksters show or any other Dead band that draws cares at that level of detail, I think you are mistaken. That is NOT what is putting people in the room. A lot of us sit on the internet and critique how close this guy is to nailing it, or that guy is to missing it, and we comb over the minutiae. Guess what, those ARE NOT the people that are paying money to come out and see you play. The people who come out to see you play, come to do so to see good music played with passion and conviction. They come to dance, they come to hang with friends to have a good time. They come to be part of something. The come to hear alternative ways of playing music to what is out there today. They do NOT come to see who has the closest Super 2 split single-coil sound.

I'm so much in agreement with the above from both gents I can't recall anything posted here that's resonated with me more.

The one caveat I'd place on the discussion, strangely enough, has to do not with tone but with appearance. Audiences don't only hear with their ears - they "hear" with their eyes, too. That is why, not for us Dead-tone internet cognescetti [sic] but for the typical average audience member, after all of our obsession with this PUP and that and this effect and that, all other playing stuff being equal (i.e., phrasing like Jerry or Bob), having a guitar around your neck that looks like something Jerry or Bob played or might have may, to all of our chagrins, make a bigger difference with the audience than much of the other stuff.

I'm not saying I like this. Only that it's my intuition and experience. And like how Newton's Theory of Gravity works most of the time except in extreme conditions (where General Relativity takes over), where I acknowledge this view breaks down is at the highest levels of performance. For sure, Kimock - and Vic, too - can play whatever they want and have the audience. For the rest of us, I believe a visual prop or two like a Tiger knock-off do matter.

As for my #1 Jerrycaster (a Tiger-alike but not clone by any means), I live when I'm playing Dead now on the middle Super 2 split. If that were all I played, the guitar could be called a "one trick pony." But I play lots of other stuff, too. What works for me, because of that, is to have a pair of Fralin Unbuckers in the bridge and neck 'bucker slots. This gives me a ton of tone-shaping ability in the one guitar.

[Tennessee Jedi]

I am listening now to Roosevelt Stadium 73' and that is a tone I'd be happy to be with ...

Cheers ... Brian

I believe I as there but, truth be known, I'm not certain anymore of the year I caught my Roosevelt Stadium Show (after a while, they start "blending"). I do recall that the show was supposed to be on a Saturday night. I drove over with some friends from Long Island. The drive there was through a ghetto (Roosevelt Stadium was where the old Negro League Giants played - not in the richest part of town - though it had heart). The tickets said "Rain or Shine." Well, naturally, it rained. The stadium floor was a f-ing mud puddle with people dancing in the mud like piggies. I particularly remember one very obese guy dancing like a dervish because I started peaking then and it was so totally absurd! The Dead came out, plugged in, and then left the stage. A guy came out to say the show was being cancelled due to the wetness. The crowd got nasty, thousands of people screaming in unison, "Rain or shine. Rain or shine." Bob came out to personally apologize and explain it was because one of the band members was shocked could have died. Someone in the audience threw a bottle at Bob and hit him. I don't know if it was Hells Angels but a bunch of burly guys in colors jumped off the stage and beat the living shit out of the bottle thrower. It really was a nasty scene. We'd been planning to camp out after the show but were so bummed we just hung around for several hours until we could function again and drove home. But the cool part was there were guys handing out rain checks on the way out and each of my group got 2 each so when we returned the following Tuesday night our group had doubled! And the make-up show was wonderful.

Awesome story love the tour stories !

[deepelem]

Don't want to get too far off track on the original poster's question ... and how did we get this far afield anyway? ... but yes, I think it's that good and it's all I play through with the Dead band, direct to the board. We now take you back to the replica discussion

Yep, thanks for those thoughts they were a big help in showing me options out there .. I will be looking at Scott's and Lollers websites for sure..... and ...... back to the thread ...

Thomas Lieber, apart from his beautiful piece of work which he calls The Garcia /// offers a range of .... dare I say "budget" Tiger and Wolf inspired guitars starting from 4500$ ... his AB9 and AB10 are beautiful guitars and you can customise as much as your pocket will allow. I think someone already mentioned Matt Moriarty's "Bare Bones" series kicking off around the same price range ... now you pay more than that for a Gibson so anyone looking for Tiger/Wolf inspired guitars should seriously check out their websites .. there is much information and pics on them .. and you will see what great quality of work is out there.
For myself I have pretty much decided where I am going ... so now I am on the pickup and electronics trail .. and hitting the web for info on that darned Axe effect thingy haha!

PS ... nice vid thanks Vic and lovely playing ...very sweet !