Grateful Dead Music Forum

I'd be curious to hear folks' thoughts on this.

A couple years ago I got together with a guy I met who is a singer-songwriter. He had a ton of originals that he wanted to finish and record. I play guitar, and he thought I could contribute to his songs. We found a bass player and drummer within a few months and got to rehearsing. We polished up about a dozen songs to record, and they sounded pretty good. These were very short songs with no jams--all my solos were scripted (at the singer's request, as this was really his gig). We recorded the songs in the studio in just a couple days on his dime, and the rough cuts were good.

Mixing and dubbing went on for months, and there was a lot of overdubbing. He paid for all the studio time, and I didn't really want to get involved in all the dubbing and retracking and remixing because it was his money, and he could be as obsessive as he could afford to be. The band stopped playing together about a year ago because he had conflicting life needs at the time, and he couldn't focus on the band. I was OK with that because I started to feel he was too controlling about the music. I had had a good experience, and life goes on.

Anyway, he finally finished the CD, and he sent me a copy. It sounds good, and most of my guitar parts were preserved. But some of my guitar parts that I was real proud of were taken out and replaced with different solos played by someone else. I didn't know this would happen, although I confess I haven't talked much with this guy lately. I know it was the singer's call, and I knew ahead of time it was his money paying for the studio and his songs, but I can't help feeling a little miffed. I figured that asa member of the band my contributions would be preserved, but I guess it wasn't really a band as much as me being a sideman.

Anyone have a similar experience? Is it your sense this is business as usual?

JK

I haven't been in the recording studio as a pro in years, but in the limited amount of session time I had, when I walked out of there with my guitar, it was in the hands of the producer and the artist at that point. I would not have been particularly surprised that your singer changed the guitar parts, particularly if he was scripting them in the first place. He probably views it as something akin to changing a word in a lyric line -- especially if he is not a guitar player.

Your experience is a bit different, since it was a band setting (at least at the time it was recorded), but I think the rule of thumb is, unless you're in the control room when it's being mixed, no one's going to make the case for you.

There was an HBO documentary a few weeks ago about Springsteen's Darkness recording sessions, and during playbacks it was a total free-for-all in the control room, with everyone wanting to turn up their faders. In the end, Bruce had to throw everyone out of there and make the final calls. Interesting to watch.

I've done a handful of sessions for various folks and I'd say your experience is not unusual. I've both had things I recorded done by someone different as well as redoing a part someone else had recorded. I was a little miffed about getting my stuff erased and felt a little guilty doing that to someone else but that's how the business is. I dunno if you were paid or not and not that it really matters but when someone else is writing the checks I just try my best to give them what they want and move on. Our bassist has a lot more session experience as he has done a bunch of stuff with Alligator, House of Blues, and others with a bunch of old Chicago blues guys and his motto was, "pay me, and I don't care what you do with it. Give me $200 more and you don't need to give me credit."

I recently read a little interview with I think it was Steve Lukather. He was saying that in the LA session hey days he would record 10-15 sessions a week where he would go lay down some solos knowing that 3 or 4 other guys were recording solos for the same songs and having to wait till they were released to see if he made the cut. It was something of a game to him.

Were you paid to play in the studio or credited with song composition? That is the difference.

strumminsix wrote:Were you paid to play in the studio or credited with song composition? That is the difference.

I wasn't paid. I was listed as playing electric guitar, but all song credits were given to the band, not to individual members.

I'm not terribly shocked that parts of mine were redone. It just feels a little lousy.

jefkahn wrote:

strumminsix wrote:Were you paid to play in the studio or credited with song composition? That is the difference.

I wasn't paid. I was listed as playing electric guitar, but all song credits were given to the band, not to individual members.

I'm not terribly shocked that parts of mine were redone. It just feels a little lousy.

I don't blame you for feeling lousy; I would too. In fact I'd be pissed since there was: no pay, no courtesy, and misleading listing and overdubed parts.

I guess the basic rule is next time you go into into the studio, make sure you know what the deal is. I note that you mentioned that all songs were credited to the band. Does that mean you are a band member and will receive a share of the royalties?

I made a lot of edits to the various tracks of an album I recorded earlier this year. I didn't cut anyone's solos although on one song I chopped twelve bars out of the guitar solo to put a harp solo in. (The guitar player knew I was going to try a harp in that spot and wasn't concerned). On one song I asked the keyboard player to simulate a police siren on the hammond organ, which he did for about four bars and I copied and pasted it into eight bars. I also substituted one note for another in a harmonica riff that went right through the rythm track of one song and in another the sax player played a little riff that I liked towards the end of the song and I copied it and added it to the intro.

I feel that as the engineer and myself produced the album and I wrote the songs and paid for the recording, I should be the one to determine how the finished product sounds.