Grateful Dead Music Forum

This is kinda funny and I bet most of us "jerry guys" do this from time to time. During the sugar mags jam this past saturday I picked my way through one rep of the jam progression and in midstream it was instantly familiar as I recognized it as being just about the same as a part from the same in a version from the late 70's, IIRC maybe New Haven Coliseum? Maybe even a DP's.

Anyway I've loved the version and listened to it many times though never actually figuring out exactly how to play it - so here at 5:04 I find myself playing it and at once torn as to whether to stay with it and work it or bail on it as it sounded too much like I was copying it - I bailed though in retrospect I should hung with it and worked it out. I guess it was really ingrained in me!

Here's our version - as stated it's at 5:04 on the player at the archive and on my foobar player as well. I'll try to find which GD version it is.

http://www.archive.org/download/sb2010- ... 0D2T07.mp3

here's the gig audio page

http://www.archive.org/details/sb2010-04-10.sbb.aud

Anyone else find themselves stumbling onto specific licks? It seems to happen to me once in a while but this one almost through me off my game!

We broke out 6 new tunes (for us anyway!) this night - US Blues, UJB, Truckin, Other One, Peggy-O, and FOTD. A few rough patches here and there but we had fun.

So here's the version I was thinking of

http://www.archive.org/details/gd78-05- ... sbeok.shnf

4:52 on the archive player. Ingrained in the brain I suppose

Was late 70's New Haven but not dp's - I think I was thinking of that Rochester DP's w/ the killer SM's.

I do it all the time! Example, we played Scarlet and when we listened to the show later I'd pretty much copied the solo from 12/27/77. Of course this applies to other shows/songs too but I played to that show in paticular so much in middle school that I find myself subconsciously copping licks from it fairly frequently. Sounds silly, but if I catch myself doing it live I can't help but laugh to myself. I guess cuz more often than not, I'm the only one who knows.

Billbbill wrote: ...
Anyone else find themselves stumbling onto specific licks? It seems to happen to me once in a while but this one almost through me off my game!

We broke out 6 new tunes (for us anyway!) this night - US Blues, UJB, Truckin, Other One, Peggy-O, and FOTD. A few rough patches here and there but we had fun

That's the best!! Go for new ones. Stretch. Fun is where its at.

Since I don't play out, it's easy for me to say. But in terms of the topic at hand, I am not a Jerry nor would I call myself a Bob though I play the Bob (aka rhythm) part in a jam I am involved in. I find myself stumbling on what I seem to recall as Bob riffs, in a song or sometimes deep in a jam. Maybe it is just "hitting the note" (Allman Bros??). In any event, I dig it and do get caught off guard but if my heart is it in it at the moment, my "jive" or "mojo" is working and I consciously try not to reflect on it as that in itself is a distraction. This from a total amateur mind you.

I think it is great that you are hitting this. Hope you get there more and more often and it can lead you to places yet undiscovered.

Peace,

Fretful Dave

The fact that Jerry himself did not "channel Jerry" more often is amazing to me.

As an actively gigging player since 1973 or so I find that when I play something in a solo that works really well for me OR goes over well with the audience or both, that little guy on my shoulder says, "note to self...do that again next time!". lol It is so tempting to repeat past successes rather than plumb the depths hoping to find another gem.

It always amazed me that Jerry, and the Dead in general, were so true to the improvisational approach that they were willing to pass on by motifs that may have worked big time in order to find something new....night after night after night! Of course Jerry's well was a little deeper than my "kiddy pool" of resources, but it's amazing dedication to me.

willmusic wrote:I guess cuz more often than not, I'm the only one who knows.

Right, probably the best reason along with it being a nice little vibe for why I should have kept it going!

FretfulDave wrote: Fun is where its at.

Peace,

Fretful Dave

Absolutely - and were having a bunch right now - also starting to attract a small but hopefully growing cadre of folks who are coming back for more.

check them out after Deal

http://www.archive.org/download/sb2010- ... 0D2T02.mp3

At one point between songs one guy goes " you have to play every weekend" and then "you can play at my house"

FretWilkes wrote:The fact that Jerry himself did not "channel Jerry" more often is amazing to me.

As an actively gigging player since 1973 or so I find that when I play something in a solo that works really well for me OR goes over well with the audience or both, that little guy on my shoulder says, "note to self...do that again next time!". lol It is so tempting to repeat past successes rather than plumb the depths hoping to find another gem.

It always amazed me that Jerry, and the Dead in general, were so true to the improvisational approach that they were willing to pass on by motifs that may have worked big time in order to find something new....night after night after night! Of course Jerry's well was a little deeper than my "kiddy pool" of resources, but it's amazing dedication to me.

Well said FW

I too have often hit on something that on the one hand I want to replicate and on the other kinda "love it enough to let it go" lol!

Then there's whether or not I could hit it again if I wanted to! Or hit it again with the same flow/emotion etc that comes along with it when it's spontaneous.

This might be a little out of left field but it interests me and might for you. Day to day playing I'll catch myself playing a Jerry riff - you know, I catch myself in the middle of it and notice it sounds familiar. However under the influence of a little Lucy it happens a lot - most noticibly that signature bubble up/build up riff he liked a lot. It's kinda cool how that happens.

Sometimes the biggest critics are us, not the crowd or even our band members. The other guys in the band are probably thinking the same thing at the same time sometimes! You sounded great, and when we think too much that's when it becomes harder! Some of the best stuff is when I say to myself, "How the fk did I just do that, and where & when did I learn it?"

I always find it funny after we finish a song at practice and take a smoke break, at least three of us say in unison, "Sorry I fucked up that part going into the bridge...etc" and none of us noticed the others fault, unless it was OBVIOUS and wrong. Sometimes I will be on fire, and I think I have reached a new plateau in my playing and I get excited. I want to go for the biggest gig in town with a perm-a-grin. Then a few days later, I play bad and things seem heavy. At that point I realize and remind myself what we do is so emotional, psychological, chemical and physical. Again, you guys sound great, your nailing a great tone!!

studied_4_acid_test wrote:This might be a little out of left field but it interests me and might for you. Day to day playing I'll catch myself playing a Jerry riff - you know, I catch myself in the middle of it and notice it sounds familiar. However under the influence of a little Lucy it happens a lot - most noticibly that signature bubble up/build up riff he liked a lot. It's kinda cool how that happens.

If by 'lucy' you mean, ahem, illegal substances, ahem due to occupational issues I haven't been dabbling in a long long time - eccept for booze. When I did I found it was a bit of a crap shoot - I'd either focus in really well and get some nice stuff going on, or not and sound lousy. Seemed like there was less of an even keel. There's also the issue of whether or not it actually IS better or just sounds better because one is under the influence. Of course the case can be made that if it sounds better it is better!

JonnyBoy wrote:Sometimes the biggest critics are us, not the crowd or even our band members. The other guys in the band are probably thinking the same thing at the same time sometimes! You sounded great, and when we think too much that's when it becomes harder! Some of the best stuff is when I say to myself, "How the fk did I just do that, and where & when did I learn it?"

I always find it funny after we finish a song at practice and take a smoke break, at least three of us say in unison, "Sorry I fucked up that part going into the bridge...etc" and none of us noticed the others fault, unless it was OBVIOUS and wrong. Sometimes I will be on fire, and I think I have reached a new plateau in my playing and I get excited. I want to go for the biggest gig in town with a perm-a-grin. Then a few days later, I play bad and things seem heavy. At that point I realize and remind myself what we do is so emotional, psychological, chemical and physical. Again, you guys sound great, your nailing a great tone!!

You pretty much nailed it jb. We are our harshest critics - and as long as one keeps the big picture in focus, and doesn't get too high we things are grooving or too low when it's a struggle, I think we prime the path to maximize the likelihood of reaping alchemic dividends.

I really don't 'think' a whole lot while playing, except regarding scales, changes, direction etc. In this instance, since the riff was instantly familiar, it kinda drew me in. Then I started thinking! I've got this thing where I don't want to play jg leads note for note - and this instance threw it right in my face - albeit unintentionally! Sometimes I feel it's more than enough that us 'jerry guys' copy his style - I at least want to explore my own melodic sensibilities within his musical approach.

Some thoughts about my tone on this night -

1st off the recording unit was off on the other side of the stage and somewhat on the other side of a column from me. Thus what was picked up from my amp was from somewhat of a circuitous route. In Gilligan terms it wasn't direct. tehe

Next i was using a bit more verb than the last few gigs.

I was also leaning on my bridge pup more this night than I've in the past.

Thus a bit more of that far off tunnel-y sound than usual - Not at all representative of what it sounded like to me (or Greg our bassist - sorry Greg!) as we were right in front of my cab.

For a way different sample here's Scarlet Begonias from a recent gig where everything is just about opposite - the zoom unit is right in front of me (to where when I move to one side or another you can actually hear the difference of me being and not being directly in between my cab and the zoom!), I'm playing the neck pup and I'm dialed down somewhat on the verb.

http://www.archive.org/download/sb2010- ... as_vbr.mp3

here's FLAS from the same gig - same as above but w/ the Emma envelope and on the bridge pup - when I dial in the distorion it's my mxr dist. +

http://www.archive.org/download/sb2010- ... er_vbr.mp3

vox were a bit low this night as the zoom was positioned behind the pa speakers.

Billbbill wrote:

studied_4_acid_test wrote:This might be a little out of left field but it interests me and might for you. Day to day playing I'll catch myself playing a Jerry riff - you know, I catch myself in the middle of it and notice it sounds familiar. However under the influence of a little Lucy it happens a lot - most noticibly that signature bubble up/build up riff he liked a lot. It's kinda cool how that happens.

If by 'lucy' you mean, ahem, illegal substances, ahem due to occupational issues I haven't been dabbling in a long long time - eccept for booze. When I did I found it was a bit of a crap shoot - I'd either focus in really well and get some nice stuff going on, or not and sound lousy. Seemed like there was less of an even keel. There's also the issue of whether or not it actually IS better or just sounds better because one is under the influence. Of course the case can be made that if it sounds better it is better!

Here's what I noticed...I was playing along with some Coltrane with a buddy of mine (trumpet player) and I'd doodle around for a bit...and then all of a sudden I'd hear 'something' and start jamming it out. What was characteristic of it was lots of rising action and finally resolution...the more build up...the more dissonance.. the grander the resolution felt. And then I'd go right back to doodling. It was like my brain said - This is what I have to say about that at this very second!

Also...every note was played with lots of vibrato - every note was breathing. Now there were plenty of times where I hit a sour note that was 'out' but that just made the resolution better. I look at it like this - There's button A and button B. Button A gives you a Mounds bar (the candy bar) everytime so you know what you're getting into when you press it. But you could press button B...you might get absolutely nothing or you might get exactly what you're looking for - a Snickers bar. You don't know until you go down that rabbit hole

edit -

Bill, Your using a Zoom also,,,
We just got a zoom. We are playing Sunday and would like to record our set we are playing, we only get to play one set that night, 4 bands playing. The problem is the files are huge, how do you shrink them down? Do you have any advice with this unit you have learned over the different times you have used it?

JonnyBoy wrote:Bill, Your using a Zoom also,,,
We just got a zoom. We are playing Sunday and would like to record our set we are playing, we only get to play one set that night, 4 bands playing. The problem is the files are huge, how do you shrink them down? Do you have any advice with this unit you have learned over the different times you have used it?

I don't know a whole lot about the recording end as our bass guy and percussion guy kinda handle that. I get the wav files (it records in no larger than 2 gig blocks - though separate blocks splice seemlessly) and convert to flac, edit to tracks and do the uploading to the archive.

As far as the recording goes I believe all of ours are from the onboard directional mics, though we will be utilizing the other inputs as we go along, if for nothing else to get another mic or 2 in different parts of the room. You can set the quality of the wav recording. I believe our last gig has about 3 1/2 hours of recording time on it and was just under 2.5 gigs. This was at the lowest setting. The higher settings can reap some pretty unmanagably sized files!

I'd start at the lowest setting for wav quality and see how it goes. I then edit into tracks and convert to flac in one step with Cool Edit. I then create the md5 and ffp files with traders little helper and after seeing how the tracks would fit on cd's I create the setlist text file and I'm just about ready to upload to the archive.

Our bassist is registered here - I can hook you up with him if you have anymore questions on the recording side of things.