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Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:47 pm
by playingdead
We rustled up some Gearheads tonight to put a few guitars and Jerry-style amps through their paces. Ned and Keir from Gearheads came by, and Bob (Emoto) was there as well. Andrew (Capt. Rosebuddy) and Mike Young couldn't make it.

We had two of my cabinets, both by Hard Truckers:
2X12 with JBL E-120s
2X10 with JBL K-110s

We had:

Brad Sarno's new Classic SMS, which he was kind enough to loan us.
My Egnater M4 modular preamp with the Twin/Deluxe module.
My Fender Vibrolux reissue.
My super-secret new live rig (which I refuse to reveal until you can hear it first ... LOL)

We also had:

My Resurrection Tiger guitar with DiMarzio Super II's and Waldo's buffer
Bob's Fender Strat with DiMarzio DualSounds and Waldo's buffer
Keir's Phil Gawen Eagle guitar with DiMarzio Super II's and no buffer
Ned's Jackson with a Super II, a minihumbucker and something else that escapes me.

The preamps were played through the power section of my Acoustic Image Focus 2R head. The Vibrolux used its tube power section. My super-secret rig used ... well, I can't really reveal that, can I?

It was really interesting to hear all these amps; someone would plug in and start playing, and I would just pull the cords and switch preamps as we went.

The end result? Everything sounded really good, and really different. At one point, Keir looked around and said, "I wouldn't be unhappy with any of these as my setup."

He also said, "I think everything sounds better than my setup," but that's his problem ;-)

Hopefully, everybody else will chip in, but here are my impressions:

1) Brad's SMS: This preamp does a great Jerry-style Twin. It's as bright as you want it to be, you can dial in a little grit if you like, the tone controls are flexible, and the onboard digital reverb sounds nice. Played through the E-120s, to my ears, this absolutely knocks Jerry's tone from 76-78. There's something about the treble and the midrange and reverb, that immediately made me think of Jerry's tone from those great Winterland 10-78 soundboards. Dead-on. Really nice preamp, Brad. And, it's very lightweight and simple to use.

2) Egnater M4: I'm partial to and most familiar with this preamp, as it's been my live stage rig for a while now. Speaking only for the Twin/Deluxe module, the Twin side is all clean and headroom, although if you crank the gain it will compress a little bit. The Deluxe allows you to dial in a little bit of overdrive, which is where I like to play it. It's a little less trebly than Brad's SMS. More of a late 70s - early 80s vibe to it. Somewhere between a Twin and maybe the Boogie that Jerry used on that JGB release from Keane College from Feb. 1980.

3) Fender Vibrolux: This was the real surprise of the group; I only pulled it out because Ned couldn't bring his Trio and Andrew didn't make it with his Twin. I haven't used this amp much at all since 2004. But it was instantly the most "Fendery" of the bunch, that great, warm Fender sound. Clean and delicate, with a lot of sparkle to it. Sounds most like Jerry circa 1993, when he went to the Trio but before his tone thinned out so much. I always loved this amp, particularly through the K110s, and used it live in the beginning. It is probably the most pleasing heard on its own, but from experience, it's not that effective in the context of the band or mix, it tends to sound thin. This is, I think, because there's no dirt or "hair" to the tone, so it doesn't cut. Brad's preamp and the Egnater, they cut very well.

4) My new rig ... well. We won't go there just yet. Soon, though. I'm gigging with it Friday and next weekend. If it sounds like I think it will, I have a winner.

Another big surprise was the speakers ... the K110s sounded so sweet and warm compared to the E120s, which were a little bit harsh in comparison. The E120s didn't sound bad, it's just that the K110s sounded so damn gooooood. I never use them live, because they don't handle much power, and they are rare. I don't want to blow one. But they are just magical speakers. And, as I pointed out tonight, Jerry actually played through mine. Kind of (they were used as mid range drivers in the sound system at the US Festival in 82, that the Dead played at).

To sum up:

1) Brad's preamp is lightweight, and does the Jerry Twin vibe very nicely. It's priced very attractively, a snap to dial in, and it's nice that it has the onboard reverb. It's a great choice for a Jerry rig.

2) The Egnater, by virtue of its other modules, is very versatile, does a good Twin and gives you the ability to push the drive up on there if you want to. However, it's more than three times the price of Brad's preamp, and if you're just going after the Twin sound, it's more than you'd need. But if you want to do more than just Jerry with your rig, you can dial in about any Fender, Vox, Marshall or high-gain tone you can think of.

3) The Vibrolux has a beautiful tone, but doesn't cut well in a band situation, based on my personal experience.

If you blindfolded me, I would probably choose the Vibrolux through the K110s. And regret it when I played live with it.

Unblindfolded, you can't go wrong with any of the above, and Brad's preamp would make a worthy addition to anyone's rack.

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:28 am
by playingdead
Okay ... I got up this morning, plugged in the Tiger (with Waldo's buffer) and played a little Althea intro and solo, single coil middle pickup, and Might as Well intro, single coil middle, then bridge humbucker, through each preamp into the E120s, and recorded the results. Then I did it all again through the K110s. What does this prove, besides the fact that I need to practice hitting the intro to Might as Well? Damned if I know.

It proves that all these rigs can get a Garcia sound, and any and all of them can be tweaked to your personal preference. It could be brighter, bassier, etc. I didn't mess with tone controls beyond what I would typically do to set up. More gain can be dialed in in some cases.

Brad's preamp is run gain at 3 o'clock, treble at 1 o'clock, mids at noon, bass at 11 o'clock, bright switch on.

The Egnater is on the Deluxe side of the T/D, bright position 1, low boost position 1, gain at noon, master at noon, bass and mids 10 o'clock, treble 1 o'clock.

Vibrolux was the Bright channel, treble 8, bass 5.

These files are not EQ'd, compressed, etc. Unidirectional condenser mic (Marshall) stuck right in front of the cone, at the edge of the dustcap. Not a great mic. Be nice to do it with a Neumann or something, but everybody went through the same signal chain and I left it all flat.

I put them all into one MP3 file in Logic Pro, and tried to get the individual levels as close as possible.

http://www.playingdead.net/preamps/allpreamps.mp3

The order is as follows:

Brad's SMS Classic preamp, E120s
Egnater M4 preamp, T/D module, E120s
Fender Vibrolux Reissue, E120s

Brads SMS Classic preamp, K110s
Egnater M4 preamp, T/D module, K110s
Fender Vibrolux Reissue, K110s
My new experimental rig is at the end ...

The raw files are in here:

http://www.playingdead.net/preamps

SAR = Brad's preamp
EGN = Egnater M4
VIB = Vibrolux
NEW = my new rig

These all have slightly varying volume levels to them, though.

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:03 am
by playingdead
I should've taken photos last night with all the guitars and Gearheads ...

But here's the gear.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:28 am
by strumminsix
That's a mighty fine looking DMC Ground Control you've got there! :lol:

I'm loving the clips, sounds, pics, everything! Damn I wish I lived nearby!

My biggest surprise was the SMS's reverb. It sounded like long springs! I knew it would sound good.
I was more expecting that studio very tasty and ability to be subtle sorta. But wow. Impressive!

Question on the Vibrolux - you mention it being "thin" was that with leads, rhythm or both?

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:38 am
by playingdead
Just overall ... it never sounded bad, but it didn't cut very well through the mix. I used to post clips when I was just getting started with the whole Jerry thing, and "too thin" was the usual comment.

This was a short excerpt coming out of Stella Blue from my second gig on guitar with the band in 2004 (I was the keyboard player before that). To me, this is the essence of what is sweet about the K110s and the Vibrolux, that bell-like tone. It sounds good here because the band is playing dynamically (this was my Strat with Super II's, incidentally). But when the band would do something rocking harder, it would get a little lost in there.

http://playingdead.net/vibrolux.mp3

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:02 am
by Lembic
Keyboards??
Let's see, a lefty, high notes to the left?
Ken

http://www.myspace.com/violinriver

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:39 pm
by bcresci
I see that the new mystery rig was part of the photo shoot. Did the guys who showed up for the shootout get to see it or were all those clips done later?

Ned - can't wait to hear how the Trio mods go. My continual tweaking seem to get me a little further all the time, but I'm really looking forward to a report from you.

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:47 pm
by playingdead
Everyone heard it, seemed to like it. Tonight is the real test, a gig with a stage setup that is very sonically challenging. Our first time there was a sonic nightmare. Fingers crossed!

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:47 pm
by Capt Rosebuddy
too bad I'm in ROC and can't shoot the gig tonight..and yea where did that foot controller come from? that's exactly what I was looking for. sweet stuff. Have a good gig Vic, say hi to Brian E for me and see you on monday with the real deal Twin.

cheers

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:09 pm
by Chuckles
playingdead wrote:Everyone heard it, seemed to like it. Tonight is the real test, a gig with a stage setup that is very sonically challenging. Our first time there was a sonic nightmare. Fingers crossed!
So... spill it!

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:52 am
by playingdead
See the thread I just started.

It worked fairly well. It's the worst stage we play on ... the first time we played there, I had the whole Jerry rig. There's a tall wooden wall that curves around the back of the stage, it's about 10 feet high. It reflects everything from the vocal monitors back to the front of the house. There are four main speakers, two in front of the stage, and two at the back for the room facing the stage. It blares, it's horrible. We sounded like s--- last time we were there, and the stage volume was unbearable.

This time, the stage volume was better, but there were still problems with vocal monitors, etc. But I was able to hear myself far better than before. I suppose that's a victory.

The board tape still came out bad -- all you hear is my guitar, vocals and drums, the audience tapes are terrible. It's the room.

http://playingdead.net/built2.mp3

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:51 am
by Rusty the Scoob
Yesterday in the Phish lot I talked to someone that was at your show... I asked how your new rig sounded, and he hadn't even noticed you had changed anything! Pretty impressive, sounds like you have it dialed in. The sound clips were great, I would have never guessed you went totally digital.

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:46 am
by clifton hanger
Hey Vik,

I just got a clarus +, which is great!! I cant get an ice pick sound out of this thing, which is great! everything sounds warm, even with my CB1 buffer on.

anyways, I was searching around and looking for a preamp to put in front of it to get a little tube saturation. Thanks for doing the shootout i really liked the egnators and the SMS. in all cases I preferred the e-120s.

What egnator module were you using for the e120 test?


thanks,
Peter
www.thewildwoodbrothers.com

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:22 am
by playingdead
Thanks, Peter. I used the T/D (Twin-Deluxe) module, with JJ gold 12AX7 tubes.

Your band sounds great, by the way.

Re: Jerry preamp shootout

PostPosted:Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:11 pm
by clifton hanger
Thanks Vik for the compliment and the information! you have always been very helpful/generous with sharing info.

We were fortunate enough to have Jeffrey Norman at the Helm mixing and mastering through most of the same gear (compressors, eq, reverb units) that he uses for GD. Unfortunately, I didnt use the best gear while recording the record so I ended up reamping a ton of tracks.

If you or any one else on rukind ever needs any mixing or mastering done, Jeffrey is the guy. He is a true pleasure to work with and a he does outstanding work. His business is called garage audio' (and mockingbird mastering) and is run out of petaluma. I live in Redwood City so it was cool going to his studio and hanging out while he mixed. We plan on doing another record in the next few months so I will post it when we are done.

I am a huge Pat Martino fan so that is what turned me on to the Clarus, and then I remembered your favorable opinion of it and decided to give it a try. Your playing is very impressive. I hope that one day I will have the pleasure of seeing you guys play live.

Take Care
Peter

www.thewildwoodbrothers.com
www.myspace.com/thewildwoodbrothers