Grateful Dead Music Forum

This might not make me popular but I want to raise a question: Is drums>space relevent anymore?

I think about this sometimes and I caught DSO on Tuesday and was thinking some more. I'm not even 40 yet and certainly don't feel like an old fogey but I would really rather hear 2-3 more songs instead. I love getting lost in a nice groove or jam and sometimes the transition to space just knocks my mojo off.

I realize DSO is re-creating and bands like Ratdog, Allmans, you name it want to take a break or showcase the rythm section but I think it's an ancient standard these days .
Be gentle, I would just rather keep the flow going.

If I was tripping my balls off I might enjoy it. Once in a while when listening to a show I might get caught up in the mood of things if I'm really into it and don't get to the cd player in time. I will say some drums&spaces were mind blowing, but more often than not they were kinda lame. Too many sounded like practicing scales while cycling through the midi effects. What really hurts is knowing how many shows can fit on only 2 cd's if you just cut out drums and space or a couple of crappy tunes you never cared for or got botched for some reason. The purist/completist in me could never do that.

Space is the place. A signpost. Take a deep breath before proceeding.

tigerstrat wrote:Space is the place. A signpost. Take a deep breath before proceeding.

ALWAYS came back for space! Drumz? Can't remember sitting through more than a couple over the course of 26 years - always a good time to take a leak or grab a drink.

Too many sounded like practicing scales while cycling through the midi effects.

That's exactly my point- thanks, I was having some trouble putting together a decent thought last night

In the 90's when I was on some kind of hallucinate for a good majority of shows I saw, I loved finding a comfy spot, focus in on the screens and just let my brain take over for a while. Now a days I don't care if the band flys into a 15 minute dark star, dancin whatever jam, I would much rather have more tunes.
DSO did a great truckin and a very upbeat ripple on Tuesday as filler. Again, I know what they are doing and love everything thing about this band but playing devils advocate those tunes could have been part of the set with a limited drums>space or none at all.

So you're saying that it used to be relevant but now isnt?

I always danced along right through drums and space. The groove is still there; it's just a little dispersed and unfocused. It is easier to "tune in" on a regular song, but the roller coaster is still there in drums and space if you choose to hop in and take the ride...

D/S = PB

Crazy 9.5 Fingers wrote:D/S = PB

that'd be a great bumper sticker... another fave from the 80's was "This vehicle swerves for Drums & Space"

my favorite spaces were the ones that went into I Will Take You Home. jerry has some beautiful sax jams.

while I usually skip these two when just listening to a show, watching it and being there is a whole other thing. trippin or not i have always enjoyed watching D/S, and i for one hope DSO keeps it up (at roughly the same frequency, im not sayin they should be adding it to early 70s shows or somethin!)

CaptainTrips wrote:So you're saying that it used to be relevant but now isnt?

I don't know if that's exactly what I was saying. I guess it's not just as "relevant" to me,or better yet I don't get now what I used to get out of it and was seeing if anyone else felt the same.

If DSO (and I'm just using them as an example, not singling them out) is doing an original set why not just do some more tunes that would include a pretty extensive jam but not to the extent of a drums>space. Just sayin, it's a thought and an opinion of someone who will keep going to shows as long as I can breath no matter what the band does

I dig the Drumz/space deal.
Lots of good "pre-" drumz jams.
Bobby and Brent - ' 79 !
A good space is great mood setter - the more sinister sounding the better.
As far as DSO goes I kind of agree with OP here.
But then they wouldn't be true to the deal they do.
Also drumz = a chance for Jerry ( and whoever )to toke a joint ....

CaptainTrips wrote:So you're saying that it used to be relevant but now isnt?

That's my reaction as well. The only folks I remember being really into a drums/space were those who were REALLY gone on the drugs. Me and most of my friends usually hit the can at that time (which I assume is what PB is? Potty Break?). We had these same discussions back in the early '80s. I enjoyed drums occasionally, but wouldn't have been at all upset if I went to a show and they didn't have a drums. I can't ever remember really getting into a version of space. I thought the constant inclusion of those two had as much to do with venues dispreferring a 3 set show and the boys preferring to have a second break as anything else, no?

D/S was always one of my favorite parts/things about seeing the GD. One's state of mind obviously played a big part of how it was, but for the most part, I tried to catch it entirely unless I was dying to hit the head. Some of the Drumz in the late 80s were just unfreakin believeable--occasionally a show highlight IMHO.
As for listening to it on tapes, definitely lacks the "ambience" of seeing it live. I've cut a few to save room and tape, especially if there's no interesting segue/jam involved. Bit of course there usually was.
As for DSO doing it, I suppose if they're trying to "recreate" a specific show that had D/S, they oughta do it. If it's an original show, I'd vote for forgoing it generally. Phil talks about it in his book and mentions that one of the reasons it stuck, was to give the band members time to catch one/pee, etc....my assumption is that it was used more or less to "recharge"....especailly in their more habitual days.

I think that when playing out in a band, it seems a bit presumptious to do a full-blown D/S, especially in a smallish bar. We do one occasionally, usually pretty short, but for the most part, your average person in a bar seeing a GD cover band is not very into it and would rather just hear another tune or two. That's at least the feedback I typically get. In fact, I've watched D/S clear a bar out--- in under 10 minutes in some cases. People like drum solos, but I think it's better for a band/audience to play huge jams in tunes that are built for it (Cassidy, Birdsong, Dark Star, etc) than to do a separate Space.