Grateful Dead Music Forum

theres been one tiny thing that has irked me. As far as the music itself goes everything is great, but sometimes Robert Plant's lyrical references make me shake my head. Specifically the ones to Tolkien or things in a similar vein. The last verse of Ramble On is one example...the line "the winds of THOR are blowing cold" in No Quarter is another one, maybe Im just a stickler but Ive always thought those blunt references kinda cheapened the mood of the music...

Ya, I think I read an interveiw where Page or Jones complains about all the Tolkein references. Never really bothered me much. If he was really into reading those books at the time it was bound to creep into the music one way or another. You do have a great point though, because it is akin to a pop culture reference which does limit the timless quality of a good song or lyrics. I generally do tend to dislike pop references or name dropping in songs for that reason. "You're Jammin' Me", by Tom Petty is a good example of that. I guess one could argue that the song is a good snapshot in time of the mid 80's. Not that I think it's a great song or anything. Now I'm ramblin'.

personally, i've never had a problem with the references, in fact I kinda liked them, but then again I really liked the LOTR books.

bo - I kindly disagree with the "pop reference" analogy, though, cuz it's more of a reference to mythology, which is draws of timeless tales - ok you could argue that Tolkien is not really mythology, but the THOR reference is. The Dead also referred to mythology in their songs - "you maybe the fate of Ophelia" from Althea, or "Mountains of the moon Electra, bow and bend to me" from MOTM. they also referenced other literary works in thier lyrics like: "The thousand stories have come round to one again, Arabian Night. Our gods pursue their fight" from Blues for Allah. There's also a whole bunch of bible ones - like the GSET, Esau, or Half-step (cain & able).

any ways, it's all good in my opinion.

The Hammer of the Gods stuff is cool ...
I have some Zep vid where Plant thinks hes some kind of Knight/Viking ....eats a shroom...saves some chick ...
I pretty much blame Sabbath for the bad lyrics in rock - "I am Iron Man " is like a 4th grade reading level lyric.Ozzy might not be the brightest bulb.
To add to what D.V.S said
- then name "Grateful Dead " is a reference ..
China cat is loaded too.
Ramble on Rose
U.S. Blues
All full of references ...

oh, and Ramble on Rose doesn't have any pop culture references? The dead do their fair share of laying out their lyrics pretty well in some songs, in others, they're far more vague, and I think every band goes through that a little bit.

Not sure what you mean ...
Ramble on Rose is loaded with all kinds of references ...

Tennessee Jedi wrote: I pretty much blame Sabbath for the bad lyrics in rock - "I am Iron Man " is like a 4th grade reading level lyric.Ozzy might not be the brightest bulb.

Right on Jedi! With these opening lines you know you're in for some clever lyrics.

Has he lost his mind?
Can he see or is he blind?

or maybe the opening lines of war pigs

Generals gathered in their masses
just like witches at black ...

wait what rhymes with masses??? Oh yeah masses.

Brilliant!!

And Sabbath is real influential ....
I mean what if Ozzie was a brainiac and was writing some deep shit , maybe all the satan stuff and Devil Baby album covers thru the history of metal would have never happened ?

< ------ thanks to Ozzy for this one !

I'm not a fan of Sabbath ( okay, I liked them when I was 12 ), but we have to cut the Ozzman some slack - isn't he like a third grade drop-out? Then, when you factor in all the years of hard core substance abuse he did, I'm amazed he can write or speak as well as he does.

Zep's lyrics aren't my favorite, but they are by far not the worst out there. Then, you have some bands like Yes, who I love, but seriously, could they be anymore impossible to decipher? What the hell is Jon Anderson talking about half the time?

" Mountains come out of the Sky and stand there .."

Yeah I love Yes
Jon Anderson could sing about dog crap and it would still be sweet !
What a voice ...

Ps - Sabbath aint too bad.Ozzy is just funny thats all.

i am not really sure if the references in ramble on rose would be considered pop culture. I mean , certainly, wolfman jack would be as a disk jocky. but billy sunday was a 1880's professional baseball player turned religious figure. Would mary shelly or frankenstein be, i mean i guess because of the movie, yes. but mary shelly wrote frankenstein in the 1820's. anyway, i wouldn't consider jack and jill to be pop culture. Are blues pianist, i.e. crazy otto/ john maddox considered pop culture. I have no idea i am just not sure, intellectually speaking, if these really fall in to the pop culture category. In fact, i think they are references to literature, or folktales, or lesser known music. it is an interesting topic of discussion

Good points, a lot this stuff is steeped in lore. Afterall, we're not talking about Michael Jackson's glove here.