Grateful Dead Music Forum

this is not intended to be a political rant, there will be a slight bit of politics involved, but mainly I would like to discuss a very large problem myself and my colleages are experiencing.
First I feel I should talk about the economy in Buffalo. I know the entire nation is in a depression, however most aren't feeling it like we are. In 2005 we we're the 5th poorest city in the nation. Today we are the second poorest (detroit is the first). My borther lost his job this mourning because his company shutdown. He called me for advice, I told him he's fucked. There are no jobs, there's a waiting list to get a job at McDonald's, that's pathetic. I've been unemployed for a while now. I've been looking everywhere but there's nothing. I've always fallen back on music and carpentry when things got rough, but I'm worthless as a carpenter now. Not for lack of skill, but because nobody can afford to get any work done. The "economic stimulus check" is a joke to us. It's not going to stimulate our economy, it's going to pay our rent. Most of the property owners in the city who rent buildings and houses/apartment's don't live here. Most of the landlords I've ever had live in Florda.
So, how does this effect the musicians?
That one's simple. With nobody having extra money to have a good time with standard Bar attendance is virtually non-existant, let alone show attendance, no one can afford to spend any money. The venue owners who are still trying to attract a crowd with live music have dropped there pay rates drastically. The pay sucks. We'll pull in about $250 between 5 guys for a 4 hour show. A price we would have laughed at a few years ago has now become a price we hope to get. Venues all over the region are shutting down on a daily basis. Now there's less places to play. Our bread and butter used to be private parties, but nobody can afford to throw a private party anymore.
With all these problems alot of places have resorted to straight up douche-baggery. Often promising the band a price and then skimping on the money or just not paying at all after the show is over, as most of these arrangments are verbal, theres nothing the band can do about it. This just happened to us on Saturday night.

Alot of people say that we should move. I have to answers to that
a. that doesn't solve or help the problem in any way.
b. moving costs money, nobody has any money. you do the math.

So here I sit, watching my family and friend (along with myself and the rest of the city) get poorer and more depressed. The depression gets worse as nobody can afford to entertain themselves. The band's get less bookings and just hope to actually get paid. We're gonna keep playing, we're gonna keep truckin, we're gonna keep on keepin' on, but the what end is anyones guess

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles!

Secondly, I applaud you talking issues not politicians.
IMO, that is the key to civility on non-poli boards!!!


I very much agree about tough financial times and low bar attendance. I see it in and around Chicago. Then add in the statewide smoking bans and what I see are people who would rather save money by drinking at home and being able to have a smoke wherever they damn well please!

It definately seems as if we, as musicians, are in for a tough time...

hey spilly, I know you talked about moving, but you should really consider visiting or relocating in or around atlanta, I got three reasons for you:

1) metro atlanta is the fastest growing area in the United States
2) that means a lot of money is coming in, and more jobs are available
3) the bar attendance is always growing, and more and more local bands are stepping up to fill voids for bar managers. there are a lot of opportunites down here

Plus, even if you lose money moving somewhere, it might be worth it in the long run.

Yep, the recession sucks, and with the smoking ban and all the DUI check points, people don't go out anymore. The average dive bar pay in the bay area is about 200 bucks, split that between 4-5 guys and everyone is working way below minimum wage.

It's hitting everywhere. Richmond has always had very high crime rates so that kept people out of the bars for a while but that has dropped rapidly in the last couple of years. I started to see more people at shows but now it seems to be slowing down again. I guess it just comes down to gas prices, plus the threat of no-smoking laws.

I saw Donna and the Tricksters at a local bar a couple months ago and it was a sad scene. There was no-one in the place. I went ahead and took a head count becuase I was in shock and it turned out being give or take 40 people in the place.

Spilly, are you serious? those fucks were collecting 5 dollars at the door, and you guys didn't receive a cent. That sucks man. We should just all sell crack, at least that pays the big bucks. j/k

for your band, look into working with an agent. his cut will be 10-15%. but at least he can protect your interests, get you solid gigs etc...

i'm an agent by night, On The Road present - www.otrpresents.ca

I know how tough it is out there...as an agent it is very hard getting venues to let your bands in...

I know a corporation that'll hire ya in a heartbeat, and give ya a free trip to Iraq ta boot. Seriously, sorry to hear about your situation.

I feel ya, man. I spent nine years up in NW PA just south of Erie until this past October, and the economy there ( and in NE Ohio as well ) is just as bad as in Buffalo. Same exact situation with the loss of all the manufacturing jobs and like roughly 50% of the population over the last 30 years or so.

I'm lucky; I transferred there for a good job, and eventually left the area to move to Richmond VA in the same field. My job is very specialized and always in demand ( to an extent, at least ) if you don't mind moving - and believe me, I was very happy to get out of Pennsylvania, what a huge mistake moving there was in the first place. You are spot on about how an entire area just becomes depressed and depressing - they may as well have just put Prozac in the water supply, everyone there is on it anyway just so they can cope.

I hate to say it, but the truth is towns like Buffalo or Erie or Youngstown Ohio aren't going to come back anytime soon, if ever. If you're young, the only real option left to you is to move where the grass is greener, and I understand what you mean about not having money to do it. It drives me nuts when people just say " well move if you don't like it" - like it's that easy. But maybe you can try placement services that may contract with construction companies in places that are still growing and are looking for skilled, experienced carpenters and can help with moving expenses. It's worth looking into. Good luck with whatever you do.