Grateful Dead Music Forum

This is probably a silly question, but can you connect the SMS preamp
directly into a frfr powered speaker.? Would it work without harming the preamp and how would it sound considering you are not using a traditional
guitar speaker? Thanks

Couldn’t see the output level in the specs but think the answer is yes. An email to Brad Sarno may yield good info. Would need to know exactly what FRFR speaker you mean. If a powered PA speaker, you might want a speaker IR…. or not

I was looking into the Headrush frfr powered speaker for guitar. Would use it as a light weight rig for small gigs. Thanks

It would work just fine. Don’t know how it would sound though?

It will sound terrible without an IR or some other speaker simulation applied. The preamp will output a wider range of frequencies than a normal guitar speaker can produce. Guitar speakers act as a filter or EQ of sorts. Take this away and you will get a tone that is very bright, brittle, harsh, thin and all a few other unpleasant words.

Like others have said, you'll likely benefit from an IR.

HOWEVER, plenty of amazing albums from the 60s and 70s (and likely longer) literally had electric guitars plugged into the deck.

But for the sake of modern best practices, a simple IR loader will likely deliver you best results.

I'll actually be testing this sometimes soon and see if it sounds better with my IEMs than other tools

strumminsix wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:35 am HOWEVER, plenty of amazing albums from the 60s and 70s (and likely longer) literally had electric guitars plugged into the deck.

With a ton of EQ and post effects applied. An IR is basically a detailed EQ curve, and there are other ways to get similar results.

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:22 am

strumminsix wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:35 am HOWEVER, plenty of amazing albums from the 60s and 70s (and likely longer) literally had electric guitars plugged into the deck.

With a ton of EQ and post effects applied. An IR is basically a detailed EQ curve, and there are other ways to get similar results.

There is a ton of EQ'ing in almost every studio recording!

Blues for Allah, as the story goes, had Bobby plugged straight in. Sounds great. No heavy effects. I'm sure EQ'd. Everything is EQ'd. He sounds great.

Beatles, Gilmour, Prince, so many did this. Whole big thread on this:
https://www.tdpri.com/threads/straight- ... s.1065538/

After a long time of not using this combo, this morning I am running a SMS Classic with JG mod, into the Left side of an MC250. into a JBLD130. Sounds great even at low volume. /

I'm trying to remember how to post a pic here?!

Pete B. wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:42 am After a long time of not using this combo, this morning I am running a SMS Classic with JG mod, into the Left side of an MC250. into a JBLD130. Sounds great even at low volume. /

I'm trying to remember how to post a pic here?!

PETE! Hey buddy! With my rock band played my SMS + TubeWorks + 1x15 with Weber Neomag D130 style. HEAVENLY!!!!!!!!!!!

To post pics, they have to be posted somewhere else. Copy the link from that other location. Then use the "insert image" icon in the middle above this reply box.

I'm presently running my SMS CP w/JG Mods into a Carvin DCM200L power amp into a pair of Sound Scraper Productions (SSP) 1X12 cabs loaded with a JBL K120 and a Celestion Neo Copperback. I'm quite happy with my rig, too.

It would not occur to me to run the preamp directly into a powered speaker, heavily EQ'd or not. But different strokes for different folks.

Instead of running FRFR, a Line 6 112 Powercab Plus in Speaker mode would likely work well for this application. (Speaker mode is different from IR's and "models" plus it has EQ and other adjustments to tweak your sound.

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:02 am Guitar speakers act as a filter or EQ of sorts. Take this away and you will get a tone that is very bright, brittle, harsh, thin and all a few other unpleasant words.

No... That isn't quite how it works. The high-end roll-off of most guitar speakers occurs above the upper-frequency range of human hearing.

What you are describing is a classic example of improperly setting the gain stages and the tone stack. This is applicable to virtually all AB763 based circuits used in Jerry-style rig. It's a sign of not enough bass, too much treble, and the output signal into the solid-state power amp being too hot for the input stage of the power amp, resulting in a lot of prominent odd-order harmonics and clipping. some light reading on the topic:

https://blog.thetubestore.com/tube-vs-s ... nd-better/

Now back to OP's question..

You will be fine running the SMS into the powered speaker you listed in your post. In setting up the SMS, follow the instructions in the manual. My only thing would be bass and treble. Brad says to set bass to 0, mid to 6, and treble to 10. I feel that you can go with the bass between 0 and 2, and treble between 8 and 10. It all depends on your guitar and your tastes.

The Pad Knob on the back of the SMS will be your friend. This will allow you to dial down the output of the SMS so it doesn't slam in the input stage of the powered speaker. If you feed it is too hot a signal, you will get clipping, and this is ugly with a solid-state amplifier. It could even damage the amplifier in the powered speaker over time.

You should find that you'll be quite pleased with this rig as you have specc'ed it out. It should get you most of the way to getting a good Jerry tone. The speaker IR would add icing on the cake. But I think you'll find the cake to be delicious, even without the icing.

How did I do in my first real reply post-hiatus?

RiverRat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:07 am

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:02 am Guitar speakers act as a filter or EQ of sorts. Take this away and you will get a tone that is very bright, brittle, harsh, thin and all a few other unpleasant words.

No... That isn't quite how it works. The high-end roll-off of most guitar speakers occurs above the upper-frequency range of human hearing.

Sorry, but you aren't even close to correct. Below is the frequency response of a common "American voiced" 12" guitar speakers. There are a tone of these available online for various American and Celestion speakers. The levels drop off a cliff on most by 5 or 6 kHz. Even a middle aged person with moderate hearing loss can typically hear at double those frequencies or higher. A teenager can hear 4x.

Also notice that there is a low frequency roll off and accentuated upper mids on this speaker. These thing have a HUGE impact on the tone you hear which is why having a speaker, speaker simulator, or IR is important.

RiverRat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:07 am

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:02 am Guitar speakers act as a filter or EQ of sorts. Take this away and you will get a tone that is very bright, brittle, harsh, thin and all a few other unpleasant words.

No... That isn't quite how it works. The high-end roll-off of most guitar speakers occurs above the upper-frequency range of human hearing.

What you are describing is a classic example of improperly setting the gain stages and the tone stack. This is applicable to virtually all AB763 based circuits used in Jerry-style rig. It's a sign of not enough bass, too much treble, and the output signal into the solid-state power amp being too hot for the input stage of the power amp, resulting in a lot of prominent odd-order harmonics and clipping. some light reading on the topic:

https://blog.thetubestore.com/tube-vs-s ... nd-better/

Now back to OP's question..

You will be fine running the SMS into the powered speaker you listed in your post. In setting up the SMS, follow the instructions in the manual. My only thing would be bass and treble. Brad says to set bass to 0, mid to 6, and treble to 10. I feel that you can go with the bass between 0 and 2, and treble between 8 and 10. It all depends on your guitar and your tastes.

The Pad Knob on the back of the SMS will be your friend. This will allow you to dial down the output of the SMS so it doesn't slam in the input stage of the powered speaker. If you feed it is too hot a signal, you will get clipping, and this is ugly with a solid-state amplifier. It could even damage the amplifier in the powered speaker over time.

You should find that you'll be quite pleased with this rig as you have specc'ed it out. It should get you most of the way to getting a good Jerry tone. The speaker IR would add icing on the cake. But I think you'll find the cake to be delicious, even without the icing.

How did I do in my first real reply post-hiatus?

Nice to see you back, ole buddy!