Grateful Dead Music Forum

Wow. Just Wow.

This video has apparently been making the rounds on guitar forums. We have no idea how it was recorded, nor even if the audio was later dubbed. Even if it's all Kosher, I know I'm listening to it on my little compute speakers, not exactly the best set up for critical listening. Personally, I take the video with a large grain of salt. I believe that many different variables have an effect on the overall tone of a particular instrument. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Bill, tgo

Fascinating. Of course you cannot make everything 100% the same... But think it shows how much player is in the tone. I also think the cleaner you play, the more pronounced the subtle differences are.

It shows that with compressed audio and limited YouTube quality, the things that only subtly change the tone are inaudible, but things like pickups and pickup placement are very important. I think scale length would be audible as well if he had tested it.

One could argue that even though some of the other thing do influence the tone, since we can’t or can barely hear it in a YouTube video, they aren’t important. It’s a fair point, and one that we should take to heart when chasing Jerry tone with limited resources.

Get the pickups, pickup placement and height, and scale length right, and you are more than 95% there as far as the guitar is concerned. Yet, I think a lot of people spend far more time and money pursuing the remaining few percent. That’s OK, but it should only happen after you get the big items out of the way or you are wasting time and money. I should add that the wiring matters too! Pots and cap values, buffer etc. are far more important than neck material or what metal the bridge is made out of. Get that right along with the pickups, maybe before if the budget is super tight.

Not sure how much scale length enters the equation. I suspect it has more influence on the playing feel than on the actual sound. Over the years Jerry played both 24 3/4” scale (Les Paul, SG, Guild Starfire ) and 25 1/2” scale (Strat, TB, Wolf, Irwin & Cripe guitars). They all sounded like Jerry. (And what a wonderful sound it was!).

Bill, tgo

lbpesq wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:21 am Not sure how much scale length enters the equation. I suspect it has more influence on the playing feel than on the actual sound. Over the years Jerry played both 24 3/4” scale (Les Paul, SG, Guild Starfire ) and 25 1/2” scale (Strat, TB, Wolf, Irwin & Cripe guitars). They all sounded like Jerry. (And what a wonderful sound it was!).

Bill, tgo

At a minimum, scale length impacts the location of the pickups relative to harmonics, and with humbuckers, the distance between the coils relative to the node spacing on the strings. Assuming the same strings, scale length also impacts string tension which does impact tone. Likewise, keeping tension the same would mean different string gauge which also impacts tone.

Obviously, this stuff is all super small compared to playing technique, pickups, and amplification, but I *think* it may still be significant enough to hear a difference even over YouTube.

PU placement is where you place the pickups. It really isn't based on scale length. For example, the PRS 22 and 24 fret guitars share the same scale length, but the PU placement is different. Where I do suspect scale length may be a factor is that on a longer scale the harmonics are more spread out and wider maybe?

Bill, tgo

lbpesq wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:40 am PU placement is where you place the pickups. It really isn't based on scale length.

It is a bit related in that the pickup size doesn’t changed but the amount of space to place them does. For example, if you want the poles exactly on the 1/4 point (where the 24th fret would be) on two different 22 fret guitars, there might not be enough space on a shorter scale, thereby shifting the pickup location slightly. Or you might have to give up a fret.

But the bigger issue is that the spacing of the harmonic node points shifts, but again the pickups are the same size and their magnetic fields are the same size.

Still, we are talking about the very small stuff that you would have to really listen for to hear if you even could. My philosophy has always been to start with a guitar that feels right in my hands, then call Seymour Duncan (or your preferred supplier) to get the pickups to make it sound like I want.