Grateful Dead Music Forum

I can't get enough of the tones from that era for both Jerry and Phil...and those Fillmore shows in particular just sound amazing.

What's a couple things I could do to get closer to the tone that Phil had back then? I'm in the market for a proper bass amp and cab anyway, so I'm thinking on focusing on something that would get me pointed in this direction. I've been using an SWR Cali Blonde around the house...awesome little amp, but not Phil-ish.

I have an early 60's Epiphone Rivoli with a pair of Guild Bisonics, strung with flatwounds. Not quite the bass he was using then, but probably a decent starting point.

It seems like an 18" cab with an EV or JBL, and a Fender-y preamp might be key ingredients? I don't need big power, and am fine with tube, solid state, or class D options.

What should I be looking at?

If you are looking for Phil's tone from 1971, I have one word for you: Alembic. Nothing sounds like an Alembic bass, except maybe a bass retrofitted with Alembic pickups and electronics.

Bill, tgo

Well an actual alembic isn't in the budget, but I do enjoy modifying and assembling guitars. I have thought about picking up a used Starfire or casady.

Still need an amp and cab though. I'm not opposed to a Dual Showman or an F2B/power amp....but I wonder if in 2021 you can get that exact sound and power out of something small and light. Anyone making a believable class D dual showman?

Most modelers will get the tone in a small and light package.

jackevorkian wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:54 pm I can't get enough of the tones from that era for both Jerry and Phil...and those Fillmore shows in particular just sound amazing.

What's a couple things I could do to get closer to the tone that Phil had back then? I'm in the market for a proper bass amp and cab anyway, so I'm thinking on focusing on something that would get me pointed in this direction. I've been using an SWR Cali Blonde around the house...awesome little amp, but not Phil-ish.

I have an early 60's Epiphone Rivoli with a pair of Guild Bisonics, strung with flatwounds. Not quite the bass he was using then, but probably a decent starting point.

It seems like an 18" cab with an EV or JBL, and a Fender-y preamp might be key ingredients? I don't need big power, and am fine with tube, solid state, or class D options.

What should I be looking at?

Your bass set up is pretty solid. I found that the Alembic pickups I added to my Guild Starfire (which had bisonics) were an improvement and I do think that would probably be better for what I'm hearing on 4/29/71. Pyramid Gold Flatwound Strings and 2 mm Telefunken or Addamas Pick would be a good addition. Note that Phil played with his fingers on some songs in 71 and 72. Though I'm not seeing any obvious songs on 4/29/71.

There is probably a cheaper version of the Alembic F1X out there but that's what I use with a power amp. I also think the Alembic SF2 is pretty essential for really dialing things in or helping in dial in the low end and high end to the specific area you want. But thats tough to find and expensive if you buy new.

I don't personally like my JBL speaker I have all that much. I can't remember the model but its what Phil used back in the early 70's. I prefer my fEARful 12/6. I should probably experiment more with the JBL. I keep it at the practice spot. The fearful is basically just a more transparent and capable speaker. I think the F1X/SF2 is more important because of how much they shape your signal.

Both the F-1X and F-2B are great preamps. The F-2B is stereo, but lacks an effects loop. The F-1X is mono and has a loop, crossover, and DI. The SF-2 Superfilter is, indeed, a super filter. You can also set some gain with an internal switch, and use it as a preamp as well as a filter. It’s two channels. You can run it in stereo, or use it as a three channel mixer, two filtered channels and a dry channel. Each side can be set as a low pass, high pass, or band pass filter with variable Q. I set one filter/channel to accentuate highs, and the second filter/channel to accentuate lows. Then I dial in my dry signal and add the high and low channels to taste. There’s nothing else like it. It’s an amazing sonic tool. They are crazy expensive new, as are the F-1X and F-2 B. You can usually get one of the preamps for $500-$700 used if you look diligently and are patient. Used SF-2s come up rarely, but they do show up. Usually in the $500-$1000 range.

Bill, tgo

Well the bisonics were in the EB that Phil was using.
I think 2 amps at least. Different eqs. Or one pickup to one amp and the other to another. I think you have a good bass to start with. You also have your ears. Listen to a phrase and try to duplicate the tone with your hands and current gear. Don’t pick so hard. Yes to the pyramid golds. Also pick over the front pickup. Phil rarely moves from that. Also notice how he holds his right hand. It’s hard to make your hand do that at first. Some thoughts.

Thanks for all the feedback. I've lusted after a SuperFilter for years...I may try to finally get my hands on one.

Can’t help you with your specific inquiry but FWIW my bass amp is also an SWR CA Blonde (early pre-Fender model). I pair it with SWR’s matching 1x12 cab (very rare - I think less than 30 were built). That gives me 140W or so into 2 12’s. Of course, for bass, the tweeters for both units are off. My bass is an early model passive Fender P Bass Special. Glorious bass tones!

Please excuse the necro; I haven't been here in a while & stumbled on to this thread. I'm probably too late to be any help, but.......
I firmly believe that the best bass tone ever recorded is "Mama Tried" on Skull**k; that was the EB with BiSonics. Ron Wickersham & Bear did some stuff inside it, too, but I have never found a description of what, exactly. And if memory serves (I'm travelling & not near my resources) in '71 he was using a mix of 18s & 15s.
But I would second Wisconsondead's thoughts on the fEARful (if you can find one; it seems Greenboy shut down the site with the plans); I can tell you from the evidence of my own ears (from hearing Edwin Hurwitz with Shakedown Street; great band, killer player - and all-around good guy) that they will nail Phil tone - and at one-handed-pick-up weight.

Hi, I would recommend—if you are indeed comfy with building / mods—to try an active onboard preamp with your Epiphone bass. I figured that was also a big part of their work on Phil's bass in Alembicizing, was adding the active preamp.

I did that to my Starfire and it made THE huge difference IMO—to turn it into an active bass.


I have a modern Guild Starfire II with their Darkstar-eque pickups, and adding the onboard pre made a VERY big stride in the tone IMO. Adds soo much power to each note and beef + clarity to the tone.

Since I felt with other active basses I could dial in to get that same kind of mid-scooped sound with thick punchy lows and a bright sparkly top end, but nothing else sounds like a semihollow shortscale bass with flats.

So I got a Darkglass Tone Capsule on-board preamp, drew up my wiring, tested it from outside the bass first, and once all was set, I installed it the hard way through the f-hole. And this Starfire ROCKS now.

I also got a JBL K140, and with those together it really nails it IMO. Of course dialed / EQ'd to your liking and with a very healthy dose of saturation / distortion.


Other options that I've tried:
I have a basic Class-D amp but am going thru the Aguilar Tone Hammer preamp before, so it takes the boring regular Class D amp and adds a really nice saturation. Phil tone has a lot of saturation/distortion in it.

Before I installed the onboard preamp, I used the Whirlwind Bass 10 graphic EQ. I also had a nice authentic tone from it, but after the preamp I didn't feel I needed it anymore. My idea was a cheaper alternative for a Superfilter... since the Superfilter is just a very tweakable parametric EQ. Before the Darkglass, on the graphic EQ I landed on a smile curve more or less but with 600Hz punched up while the other mid bands were low. Now that the Starfire is active, I just run bass > compressor > Aguilar preamp > amp w/ K140 and it's great.

~Cheers~