Grateful Dead Music Forum

While I've put a whole bunch of JG style preamps out there in the world for others to gig with, I personally had not really played a real gig with that setup until last weekend. I just don't play much Jerry or Dead these days like I did in the late '80s. So I took my SMS Classic, my McIntosh MC250, and a pair of small 1x12" cabs each loaded with orange frame JBL D120F's that I had reconed correctly back in 1988. I'm still on those same cones. I stacked the speakers vertically. I ran the preamp to both channels of the Mc250. Each channel drove 1 speaker each. What I found really interesting was just how important that bottom speaker on the floor was. Since I had a Mac volume knob for each speaker, I could compare the upper and lower ones. The upper one was the one I miked as I knew that would be the one I could really hear best and could really tweak to find that perfect clipping point. But by itself on stage it just didn't have the warmth or body or fullness. The one on the floor was almost too far off axis to hear the clarity and it was fat and full sounding because it was on the ground. But when both speakers were turned on together, it all came alive, the best of everything.

I used that Mc250 all night and had such a blast. Once I honed in on the gain structure and levels, then I could do everything with the guitar volume knob. It lived mostly at about 65% or 75% for normal clean tones, and then I had that extra headroom to turn it up and push the Mac just a bit into clipping. There's definitely a sweet spot there where things get big and sweet and just barely dirty when picked hard. I've never had such an accurate Jerry tone on stage before.

I realize why Jerry liked that vertical cabinet with 3 12"s. Being on the floor, it had the fullness, slightly tilted back it saved the audience from the beam, and only being 3 speakers tall he didn't shoot laser beams into his eardrums directly. There was a feel, a fullness, an a nice loudness that got the guitar feeding back just right. I had the preamp settings with bass off, mids just above noon, treble 10, bright ON. I would back the guitar's tone knob down a tiny bit if I felt like it was just a hair to sizzly bright on top, at times.

It was so fun. The low, boinky notes popped out with so much presence and punch. What a rig. I estimate that I was working with about 145 watts with this setup. And back to my main point, after my observations from that gig I feel it's really important to have at least 2-12"s and with one of them on or very near the floor. I have advocated for just using 1-12", but now I question that. Perhaps if a 1-12" cab is designed properly, with plenty of cabinet volume, maybe that would work too.

I'd love to hear others' thoughts and experiences on the cabinet thing.


Brad Sarno

www.sarnomusicsolutions.com

Great info, Brad. Any chance you could share some sound samples? Also, when is Auset coming out with new music???

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:What a rig. I estimate that I was working with about 145 watts with this setup. And back to my main point, after my observations from that gig I feel it's really important to have at least 2-12"s and with one of them on or very near the floor. I have advocated for just using 1-12", but now I question that. Perhaps if a 1-12" cab is designed properly, with plenty of cabinet volume, maybe that would work too.

I'd love to hear others' thoughts and experiences on the cabinet thing.


Brad Sarno

http://www.sarnomusicsolutions.com

I started with a 1 x 12 cab with the K120 (8 ohms) in it at about chest high, tilted towards my head. This was very easy to hear with good control over the clipping (4 ohm tap). The 2 x 12 cab with K120's at ankle high titled at my head is also easy to hear, but the sound is much fuller with more control over the clipping (8 ohm tap). The 2 x 12 is wonderful even in the small rehearsal studio.

Brad, what are you referring to with your comment about 145 watts? Is that an estimate taking into consideration estimated output of ~ 70 watts per channel of the MC250?

I use the same setup.
I like having individual volume knobs on the Mac for the speakers.
I currently balance an 8ohm-K120 with a 4ohm-E120 in a vertical 2-12 cab.
Nice.

Interesting. I have your SMS and a Carvin 200 DCML built into a 1x12 combo box with a D-120. At home I have it set up on a waist high shelf in an old TV amoire that I converted into a guitar closet. I typically play seated in front of it and could not be happier with the tone. A few weekends ago I brought it to a friends place for a jam session and set it up on the concrete floor in the room we were in. It sounded muddy and muffled to the point that I thought I had somehow damaged the speaker. I was ready to crank it but it just sounded kind of shitty. When I put it back in the guitar closet, it had the same great tone.

Next time I jam with friends I'll set it up a few feet off the floor. I was kind of hoping that the single 1x12 setup could provide optimum sound. I have a second JBL (K-120) that I was keeping as a back up, but maybe its time to build a second 1x12 cabinet for it and try that two channel two speaker approach with the Carvin.

I agree, that gives the great results. Assuming: big enough stage to get in front and feel the notes bloom, big enough room to push those watts, large enough stage where it can dissipate some and not interfere with bass or keys.

For lower volume i think Leo had it right with the kickstands. My Vibroverb (1964) at about 4 on the volume aimed at my lower back is about the best feeling in the world for the situations i play in.

Seems like you can get there another way -

auralux iso pad (the old version)
Amp wedge slid under cab on top of iso

Gives you much more control of the bass as your not losing any to the floor or hollow stage anymore, wedge angles the cabinet to shoot at your head without beaming the audience

One K120 on an amp stand is all I need. Failed back surgery is a factor, but I couldn't be happier with my tone. I tried two K120's, and I lost something with that set up. Focus, sharpness, grit, something?

yup its relative to the room - stage - how many people are in the room - so many factors. Weird how many different ways the same amp / cab can sound. one thing is for sure, that once you start getting into JBL tone, its really hard to go back. That Carr came used with some EM Red White & Blues speaker in it, sounds like shit! Spiky highs, flabby lows, kinda woofy. Got a TT Purp headed this way - hoping it cleans it up

My recent experience matches Brad's. I have a 66 Pro Reverb, two DRRIs, and just recently purchased a 1x12 cab for use with one of the Deluxes. For several years I had been switching off between the Pro or one of the Deluxes (with upgraded transformers) depending on the gig. The Deluxe sounded great but could never match the 'bigness' of sound coming from the two 12s in the Pro. I tried all sorts of different arrangements with the Deluxe: flat on the floor, tilted up on the floor, on an amp stand, etc. Different arrangements worked better or worse depending on the venue.

Then I decided to try stacking the two Deluxes - first using both amps and then using the top amp for power and the bottom as just an extension cab. Both of these arrangements were fantastic. While the first one has the obvious benefit of more total power plus the ability to control the relative volumes between the two, both arrangements sounded great. Not only do I now get the bigger spread of sound that I could previously only achieve with the Pro, I now have the added benefits of: 1) getting one of the amps much closer to ear level and, 2) having the bottom one close to the floor which (along with Brad) I think is key to getting a nice full-bodied tone. This is why I recently purchased the 1x12 extension cab and I am realising the same advantages as I did with the two stacked amps...so much so that I am seriously considering parting with my 66 Pro.

I am loving the tones I am getting now, the Deluxe and cab are both light to carry, and - if I ever truly need the additional power - I can easily use both Deluxes together.

Joe

Its always a issue w getting my amp vol. at a good playing level

Never enough headroom or they get blasted w the E 120
They never let me crank it

I like to be as far from my amp as possible; hate when its right behind me
Never thought of keeping it in contact w the ground
I only use green milk crates as they have the best frequency response
Many times I just trust that the sound man has got my back and hope for the best but when your struggling it can take away from building cohesion and dynamics w the band
" pour in the ale and let it wail "

2x12 just seems like over kill inside too

Very cool Brad, it's nice to hear about these types of "rubber meet's the road" analysis. I've found that besides the huge difference in presence between the 1x12 and 2x12, the size of the cab and percentage of open back contributes to the tuning of the system as a whole. I've got a 2x12 cab loaded with the now unavailable Weber 12" neomags. On the ground the bass response was so heavy that even at Jerry rig amp tone settings it was just to bottom heavy. Normally I put this cab vertically on a chair in the bars but when I played outside with it vertically on the ground it had too much bass. Now, this cab was about 4/5 closed in the back. I sawed off some of the rear baffle and made it about 2/3 closed and that alone made a big difference and allowed some cabinet "woodiness" or "stringiness" to come through. I think tuning the cab and speaker combination probably can go along way to getting the desired response. I've also noticed that when buying JBL speakers that there seems to be two different surrounds. The accordion style and an almost foam rubber style with a single hump to create the compliance. The accordion edge is stiffer and would therefore have less bass response due to stiffer compliance. These are the surrounds I look out for when shopping for one. Speaking of speakers, you had mentioned in a post once about the viability of using a JBL E130 for Garcia tones and I have to say that is one wonderful speaker. I've got one loaded in a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe of all things right now and man is that thing loud. I will eventually run it through a Jerry rig but already have the feeling that it would work just fine.