Grateful Dead Music Forum

Is it just me, or does t seem everyone here is simply chasing the 80's Garcia tone.

Some of my favourite Jerry tones are not from that era such as:

Live Dead's Dark Star
Skull and Roses NFA> GDTR
E72's Truckin and exit jam
E72's China Rider leads
Other One's from the 77 Box Set (or just about any other song from that tour).
Studio tones from the Help Slipknot Franklins

For me Garcia got the perfect tone for those particular tunes. Like I mean who doesn't like the 80's and 90's Dark Stars - but they are not quite on the same level tone wise for me as the Live Dead version.

I love the early break up of Jerry's guitar on all of the Skull and Roses LP - sounds so authentic and vintage country but only a tone Garcia could coax out of a twin reverb......and that NFA is probably the shortest jam ever for that song, but it is so tasty. And his Stratocaster tones on E72 are subtle in their uniqueness but a total departure from what other players were getting out of their Strat rigs - even to this day - IMO.

Am I missing something here tune wise - folks agree or disagree? I think when Jerry settled in with his constant rig in the early 70's correlated with when dead heads started complaining that the Dead was stale and getting repetitive. It wan't until 88 or 89 right when Jerry's rig started (at least to me) sounding a lot different - more processed with more depth that old school Dead Head's appeared to believe a new Grateful Dead renaissance was upon them.

You gotta admit that part of the allure of listening to the Dead is that they were constantly reinventing their sound.

Peace,

James

It's just you.

Seriously, I think people are after more than just the '80s tone, and that has been addressed here and there both in specific threads on things like Wolf guitars and more open-ended discussions on tone in general.

Personally my favorite is the '77 tone...but getting there almost certainly means investing in a vintage Travis Bean guitar, which I at least am not willing to do, along with the preamp>mac>JBL-equipped cab that you need for everything subsequent to that.

I think to some extent it's easier to get to something closely approximating the LiveDead tone from your equipment without much more than a silverface twin and something like an SG or in my case a p90 equipped LP. '72 is also mostly a hardtail strat with twin, along with a colorsound wah and maybe one other pedal, I don't really remember for certain what Jerry was running then. So, the rigs are much more straightforward to assemble, though getting the playing right is just as difficult, perhaps more considering you can't depend on the crutches of using OD pedals and other effects.

By focusing on the '80s equipment you get an enhanced version of the rig being used from about '77 on, and you can always choose not to use some of the effects to mimic earlier eras.

Nice topic, James. I personally gravitate towards Jerry's early 70s tones because I think they are the easiest to replicate and IMO it was when his playing (and the Dead's repitoire) was at its peak in terms of freshness and energy. I often ponder what it would sound like if Jerry's 80s tiger rig was magically teleported back into his hands for a Europe 72 show. Perhaps many of you tread in those spaces, I just haven't had the chance to observe that yet. I'm an avid DSO fan, and as you know Mattson is a Strat guy. I asked him after a show one time while he was breaking his gear down why he played a Strat. I was hoping for a deep philosophical answer, but I think he thought it was a loaded question and seemed a little defensive, simply saying that he's always played one and that Jerry used to play one too. Anyway, Jerry's 80s and 90s tone is heavenly, but unforunately, I have a hard time separating the tone from the era, and I cant help but equate the Tiger and Rosie years as the era of Jerrys decline.

"I often ponder what it would sound like if Jerry's 80s tiger rig was magically teleported back into his hands for a Europe 72 show. "

me too...

But it would probably blow are already fragile minds

.........But if Jerry's rig was already at its apex in 72 we would have missed the 73 stratocatser and Wolf tones, the wall of sound. The 75/76 Mesa Boggie stuff. The gorgeous reverb drenched tones of the Travis Bean era and those awesome early 78 Wolf ceramic single coil tones.

......But it would blow our minds for sure. I've got a buddy who was on that tour (E72). I think many minds were blown just with the old school rigs.

And if they went "unplugged light" in the 80's and paired down like Clapton did and played Gibsons and Stratocasters again through near stock Twins, with no effects save a wah-wah - well I wonder what that would have sounded like too. I suppose with the two electric sets of the Melkweg shows we got a tiny taste of it.

Does anyone know what Blues for Allah was recorded with? Wolf with stratocatser single coils and a Mesa Boggie? I've got no clue, but his tones in the studio sound really different than the live shows before and after that studio work.

Peace,

James

Blues for Ala was released September 1st, 1975. I saw them on September 28th, 1975 at Golden Gate Park.
Jerry was playing the Travis Beam TB 1000A through the Mesa Boogie Mark I.

There is photos around some where posted by Vic that show them recording at Weirs place and Jerry is playing the Wolf

NQL wrote:There is photos around some where posted by Vic that show them recording at Weirs place and Jerry is playing the Wolf

Cool! Would love to see them

recording blues for allah at weir's house....

http://barncard.com/gallery3/index.php/ ... WEIRS/BAND

lovetoboogie wrote:recording blues for allah at weir's house....

http://barncard.com/gallery3/index.php/ ... WEIRS/BAND

Thanks! Great pics! I don't see where it says anything about those being of them recording Blues for Ala, though. Did I miss something?

Just a human behavior guess at the question asked by James: I'd say the median age of many of us on this board probably puts us near the sweet spot of the early to mid 1980s or a bit later as our "golden years" of seeing the GD and JGB. I know that's when I saw the bulk of shows and caught extended legs of tours. So a desire to gain that particular sound or at least hear it certainly does resonate with me since that's what Jerry sounded like when I knew--when he was on--he could pick me up and shake me with his playing. That era isn't necessarily my favorite (I'm not sure I have a favorite era--with the exception of post-Brent, I like 'em all!), but it does call to me in a way that others cannot. Jerry's tiger tone is the tone of my youth and when I hear it, it puts me right back in some of the best times of my life.

Pickingrin - you must be a psychologist LOL. Funny answer and probably very very true.

I've seen those pics from Weir's garage studio. Wow, tight spot to record in. Very humble abode. That was my first impression.

It's possible Jerry had a large collection of gear at that time to utilize and may have used different guitars and different amps for different tracks. For instance, the Slipknot - I wonder if that's the Mesa Boggie gain channel or a dirt pedal? The Franklin's - I wonder what gear was used on that. Such a distinct clean sound not to be replicated when they played the tune live and Blues for Allah debut show (One from the Vault). Was it the Wolf or a TB? Has anyone tried to nail that (those) tone(s)?

Peace,

James

hippieguy1954 wrote:

lovetoboogie wrote:recording blues for allah at weir's house....

http://barncard.com/gallery3/index.php/ ... WEIRS/BAND

Thanks! Great pics! I don't see where it says anything about those being of them recording Blues for Ala, though. Did I miss something?

Weir finished that studio early in 75'...the band rolled in and out popped blues for allah. some stuff was understandably mixed down and mastered elsewhere but all the basics were laid there. i believe there are some dates with those pics or i had sent an email to the cat. kingfish recorded in there as well as crosby and nash...

my favorite tone is the studio take of slipknot...always wondered what jerry was using to get that buzzsaw tone...

in one of these pictures there is that mysterious silver box that he is plugged into that i believe goes all the back to 1972...anyone figure that out yet?

Saw the box - looks like it's just a router.

It's a bigger space than I thought. Custom built as a studio. I thought it was a renovated attic above his garage.

What about this amp (or is it a speaker cab)? Looks like a vintage twin. Great pics. Lots of JBL's present.



Peace,

James

James-T wrote:Saw the box - looks like it's just a router.

It's a bigger space than I thought. Custom built as a studio. I thought it was a renovated attic above his garage.

What about this amp (or is it a speaker cab)? Looks like a vintage twin. Great pics. Lots of JBL's present.



Peace,

James

Love that! Looks like the same tweed twin that shows up in legion of mary gigs from that era...