Grateful Dead Music Forum

So, recently I've started jamming with a new guy. We get along real well, he's a great guitar player, and we have a lot in common with musical tastes. Except the Dead. He doesn't like the jams and doesn't care for Bob's voice. He does like "Far From Me" and "Just a Little Light" though. I tried "Jack Straw" from Sunshine Daydream as well as various other less jammy songs, but that didn't go well. What would you guys suggest? He says he would really like to get into the Dead but he needs a way to lead up to the jams.

I would suggest him spending a lot of time listening. If he is really wanting to get into the Dead songs and style, that's the only way. Listen, listen, listen and practice, practice, practice.

The other side of this coin is that he might never genuinely get into it and you could spend months until you realize it's a lost cause. I've been through a couple of rhythm guitar players and a drummer in very similar situations and have found that getting it clear "we are playing Grateful Dead songs and jamming Grateful Dead style" at the get go helps a lot, if that is your intention. If you are open to "His" variations, then that is a different story.

What is the "Mission Statement" of your band?
If playing GD tunes is part of the specific purpose of your band, I would look for players well versed in playing GD tunes.
I wouldn't want to hear one ounce of bullshit about playing Bobby tunes with long jams, myself.
My recomendation... Don't set yourself up for a huge pain in the the ass.
Feel Like A Stranger!

Dose 'em.

But seriously, if he has his "opinions" than he may not change either way. I had to settle on non Dead heads for band mates because I live in red neck NY, but to their credit, they really got into jamming! It's hard man for sure. You'll need to inspire him with your lead playing to change his thinking. Are you up to it?

Dose 'em.

Dose me too while you are at it. I could seriously use it right about now!

Pete B. wrote:What is the "Mission Statement" of your band?
If playing GD tunes is part of the specific purpose of your band, I would look for players well versed in playing GD tunes.
I wouldn't want to hear one ounce of bullshit about playing Bobby tunes with long jams, myself.
My recomendation... Don't set yourself up for a huge pain in the the ass.
Feel Like A Stranger!

EXACTLY on all points

What is his role during the jams? Does he lose interest because he is just playing the same 2 or 3 chords for long periods of time?
Is he more inclined to play a heavier style lead that relies more on thick dirty tones than melody and harmony?

For rythym/accompanying/Bobby I would encourage him to look into creating his own melodic sequences with 2 or 3 note voicings during jams, perhaps as counterpoint to the lead player. This can take a long time to really commit triad/2-note voicings of 7th chords and inversions to memory well enough to be able to improvise with them. I find it takes regular exercising of them or else I quickly forget them too, especially their relationship to each other. But when I have a good command of this type of comping it can be more enjoyable/satisfying than lead improv. Probably best to really master a few voicings at a time in one scale/key, apply them to applicable songs, and then start with a few from other scales/keys (minor vs. major vs, mixo etc.). It can be much more satisfying if there is a keyboard player to fill in some of the space left, especially at first. Finding ways of complimenting each other, no matter how small the contribution sounds on its own, rather than doubling and tripling the same notes among bandmembers. Its about the sum total. Its tough not to over-focus on one's own playing sometimes, and the desire to play something really amazing in its own right.

Is it the extended improv that he isn't comfortable with or the songs themselves? For improv I try and remember to take it easy and not try to force things. This is another reason it is nice to have accomplished (but humble) players at all spots...so when ideas/inspiration aren't flowing, there are others chiming in with ideas to play off of and fill in the gaps. Makes the music as a whole better too. There is often moments of feeling lost in improv jams like the Dead do, becoming comfortable with this can be difficult for some folks who are used to the instant gratification of more straight ahead jams.

Communication and sharing examples of what each others current likes are, and ideas on how to compliment the other's playing/goal is good too. The meandering, relaxed, adventurous type jamming the Dead did isn't for everybody, especially at first. It took the Dead years to find their own roles solidly and to have confidence in them. I find it takes a great deal of command, versatility, and chops, but concurrently patience, humility, experimentation, and an extraordinary ear to listen to others, combined with the courage to jump in and the capability to pull off novel ideas on the fly. It can really trick me into feeling unsubstantial as an individual player at moments, become aggravated I cant pull off what I am hearing in my head, or into being extra critical of others playing. Remember its about the whole bands relationship cumulatively, its not about showing off one at a time like a lot of rock music.

It's an interesting question and one that can be more, or less, complicated depending on whether you're addressing a player.

For a player, I'd suggest a tight, stand alone NFA - prolly late 80's. Then a stand alone late 70's GDTRFB. Then some reasonably compact combo jam of the two. And then the extended conversation/debate/compromise/consensus that is Lovelight>GDTRFB from 4/26/72.

If he doesn't get it after all THAT, then yeah, dose him, and maybe yourself, and then rock those Brent tunes.

What kinda music is the cat into? The Dead touched on it all at some point.... If he doesn't like the long jams.. steer away from them, play him some cowboy tunes or Studio cuts , Dead Set... If he likes the Bee Gees Play him some Disco Dead.. Lots of great covers of great tunes and a few not so great covers of great tunes.. use the boys catalog.. Should be pretty easy for a player to find some tunes he likes and is familiar with. If not dose yourself and play him Infrared Roses

He picked all Brent tunes. I think you're lookin' at a drinkin' buddy.

good luck even self proclaimed dead heads have different visions of what a dead band should be,

astroman99 wrote:good luck even self proclaimed dead heads have different visions of what a dead band should be,

This is very true.
It is hard enough to get a Deadhead band up and running even if every member is a life long well-versed Dead player on their chosen instrument/style/role.
Can you post the song list that you guys are working from?
Jus trying to get an idea of where you are going with all this.

Does like long jams?

Get someone else.

Hey guys, thanks for all the great replies. Let me try and give you all the info you need.

We play in a group that isn't strictly Dead, it's a mixing pot of styles and sounds. I play lead on some and he on others. Sometimes we switch out instruments (I'll go to bass and he'll take keys) and just play depending on how we feel. He went to school for music education and has his degree in that, so he knows what he's doing technically and literally. He doesn't care for Bob's voice, though he did enjoy Feel Like A Stranger. He's got a lot of great ideas musically and lyrically, but he doesn't want all the jam. "That's another two songs worth of material we could use." The set that we've been playing with is:
Shakedown Street- We don't jam this, it's usually studio length. "This is a funky song it doesn't need a jam."
Alabama Getaway- Studio length again.
Greatest Story- Usually based on Dead Set, he takes lead and gets to use a wah, this is definitely the song he gets most into.
Sugaree- I can sometimes get him to jam this one if we get a good groove and perfect tempo. We both take a solo and you really hear a nice tone difference.

That's all I've been able to convince him on so far. He seems to get bored on longer jams, even if it isn't the Dead. We switch between rhythm and lead during jams, so I'm not sure if he's getting bored or he fizzles out of ideas and just stops. Like I said we aren't a Dead Only
band, but we both thought it would be cool to be able to play a couple between originals.

When you say he doesn't like long jams how long are we talking a solo section that goes 2-3 minutes or more like 10+ minutes?

Some folks are just more concise in their musical ideas. If the guy's fun to play with and this is the hold up I'd consider how important are long jams are to you, especially if we're talking 10+ minute explorations. I'd consider being satisfied with shortening up tunes. My theory on jam sections is that they have a life of their own, if you say everything that needs to be said in 16 bars, it ain't gonna get better in 32 or 64. If he's cutting off jams just as they're getting good that's another thing. Do your other tunes have long jams in them, are you trying to stretch those out too? If your band's other tunes are 4-5 minute rock tunes and you throw out a 20 minute Shakedown St it might seem out of place in context. I find that I shorten tunes at bar gigs as folks are dancing and drinking and not necessarily looking to space-dance for 20 minutes. If we're in a situation that is more relaxed we'll stretch out more.

Is compromise possible? Will he meet you halfway? Play the jams a little shorter than you'd like and a little longer than he'd like. If not would you be musically satisfied playing it his way? Would he bail if you forced the issue?