Grateful Dead Music Forum

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:05 pm This listing shows them on the back
https://reverb.com/item/36011823-joyo-r ... t=36011823

I meant where in the circuit.

ssmug wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:14 pm On a related note regarding the Shift Line Twin, at that price plus an amp, would there be a reason not to just get the Milkman The Amp?

Obviously it's not as pedalboard friendly, but it's still a pretty convenient package.

Has anyone used both who can weigh in on should comparisons?

I owned the Milkman in the past and it is very different than the Shiftline. The Milkman has a much warmer tone. You MUST turn all the bass down and treble all the way up just to even approach sounding like a Twin. But even then it’s not really comprable. The Milkman does sound good though - especially when turned up loud. On the other hand, the Shift Line sounds pretty much just like my FYD - in other words it is made to sound like a Twin, whereas the Milkman is made to sound like a Milkman. Also, by purchasing components separately (power amp, preamp, etc.) you would have more flexibility in the long run in terms of trying different preamps etc.
The Milkman is much larger than the Shiftline. The Shiftline is 3”x5” whereas the milkman is like 10” x 8” or something like that.
Obviously there would be advantages to either one depending in what you were going for.
Just my two cents though. I’m kinda biased because I could not get the Milkman to sound good at reasonable volumes, but the Shift Line was like instantly great straight away. But everyone’s experiences are different and subjective.

Jon S. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:18 am

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:05 pm This listing shows them on the back
https://reverb.com/item/36011823-joyo-r ... t=36011823

I meant where in the circuit.

Lol

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:20 am

ssmug wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:14 pm On a related note regarding the Shift Line Twin, at that price plus an amp, would there be a reason not to just get the Milkman The Amp?

Obviously it's not as pedalboard friendly, but it's still a pretty convenient package.

Has anyone used both who can weigh in on should comparisons?

I owned the Milkman in the past and it is very different than the Shiftline. The Milkman has a much warmer tone. You MUST turn all the bass down and treble all the way up just to even approach sounding like a Twin. But even then it’s not really comprable. The Milkman does sound good though - especially when turned up loud. On the other hand, the Shift Line sounds pretty much just like my FYD - in other words it is made to sound like a Twin, whereas the Milkman is made to sound like a Milkman. Also, by purchasing components separately (power amp, preamp, etc.) you would have more flexibility in the long run in terms of trying different preamps etc.
The Milkman is much larger than the Shiftline. The Shiftline is 3”x5” whereas the milkman is like 10” x 8” or something like that.
Obviously there would be advantages to either one depending in what you were going for.
Just my two cents though. I’m kinda biased because I could not get the Milkman to sound good at reasonable volumes, but the Shift Line was like instantly great straight away. But everyone’s experiences are different and subjective.

Thanks!

Review #3
Joyo Sweet Baby Overdrive > Joyo American Sound >Catalinbread Topanga > Carvin Mach 100 > JBL K120

Is it possible to build a sonically legitimate and economically austere Jerry Garcia Tone Rig. The prospect will undoubtedly always have its naysayers. Just as there is a wide range of tastes in music, there is also a seemingly never-ending dialectic about the quality of tone. One man gathers, what another man spills …

This particular reviewer will go out on a limb and make a bold claim (Ridin’ That Train…): A full-bodied Jerry Tone Rig can be put together these days for less than $200 (plus the cost of your favorite speaker cab). Technology has come a long way and the free market has created opportunities for company’s to break open the pedals coming out of high end boutiques and reverse engineer their own versions. Ethics aside, this has provided the consumer, in this case the Jerry Garcia Tone seeker, with some very affordable and viable options.

One of the most convincing of such options is the American Sound from Joyo. At $30-$40 this pedal is an absolute bargain and punches way above its weight in terms of its ability to be used as both a viable preamp, or a Fender style overdrive.

Perhaps the most important aspect of any rig is the preamp, as this section shapes the tone more than any other. Think of a preamp as the “soul” of the rig. The American Sound does indeed have what it takes to be the soul of any budget conscious Jerry tone rig. The key to dialing in Twin preamp goodness are the high (treble) and the voice knobs. Without the high knob in the right place, the American Sound is a bit muddy as a preamp (not the case as an overdrive…more on that later). The preamp settings that I found most emulated a Fender Twin are as follows:

Low = 9 o’clock
Mid = 11 o’clock
High = 4 o’clock
Level = adjust volume to taste with power amp
Voice = somewhere between 1 & 2 o’clock (to taste)
Drive = between 7 and 8 o’clock (to taste)

I found that having the drive turned up just a little gave a nice bite to the individual notes for soloing without an overdrive pedal turned on. Using the volume control of the guitar, it was easy to dial in everything from background rhythm to lead tones at those settings.

It really does sound good!!! Unbelievably, this thing really does compete with the Super Black and the Shift Line. Since I’ve had the opportunity to alternate between all three, I can honestly say that the American Sound holds its own with either option. It does not have a tube, so in my book it does not quite obtain the full saturated tone of the Shift Line. However, I would say that it performs in a very similar way to the Super Black. Especially when paired with the Sweet Baby Overdrive.

The Sweet Baby is a clone of the Mad Professor Sweet Honey Overdrive. I couldn’t resist the temptation of putting these together to see how they matched up to the Super Black. The results were very good. What is cool about the Sweet Baby, as with the Sweet Honey, is that the overdrive is designed to be dynamic in that it changes from clean to dirt based on the intensity of your pick attack. I found that this works very well for Jerry lead tones and also with a Twin like foundation to solo over. I have read reviews on the Sweet Baby written by people who have sworn that there is absolutely no audible difference between the Sweet Baby and Sweet Honey. While I am not making such a bold claim in this particular review, I will go out on a limb and say that the American Sound paired with the Sweet Baby will take you to Jerryville on the fast train and the ticket will only cost you $60.

The American Sound can also be used as a viable overdrive option. To test this, I plugged it into the front of my FYD TRP and stepped on it to try out some lead tones. As a viable overdrive, the settings need to be set differently to avoid a shrill and piercing tone. I found that putting all the knobs back to Noon balanced out the pedal and created a nice driven Fender lead tone. The drive knob is very sensitive and the drive can actually get pretty heavy on this pedal. I dialed the drive knob back a bit, somewhere in the 9 o'clock position, and found the lead tone that I was looking for. Overall, it wouldn't be my first choice as an overdrive pedal, but it works. I think it would perform particularly well in a full band setting because it has a pretty sharp bite that seems like it would cut through well when playing with other instruments.

As in my previous review, the Catalinbread Topanga and the Carvin Mach 100 performed flawlessly and provided excellent clarity and sparkle at any volume level. Assuming you could find a decent Spring Reverb pedal for around $50, here is my proposal for the ultimate portable Jerry Garcia Tone Rig on a budget:

(Optional) Valeton Katfish Auto Wah (recommended by Bill) $40 > Joyo Sweet Baby Overdrive ($30) > Joyo American Sound ($30) > $50 Spring Reverb Pedal? > Mooer Baby Bomb Power Amp ($85)

Total Cost $235
Total Cost (without Auto Wah = $195

BTW - I was impressed enough by the American Sound, that I am going to check out the Joyo California Sound, which is supposed to be a preamp based on the Mesa Boogie MKII. I’m going to see if it is viable for early 80s JGB tone. More to come on that soon

>> This particular reviewer will go out on a limb and make a bold claim (Ridin’ That Train…): A full-bodied Jerry Tone Rig can be put together these days for less than $200 (plus the cost of your favorite speaker cab). Technology has come a long way and the free market has created opportunities for company’s to break open the pedals coming out of high end boutiques and reverse engineer their own versions. Ethics aside, this has provided the consumer, in this case the Jerry Garcia Tone seeker, with some very affordable and viable options.

2 years ago here, your comment would have ignited a shit-storm. Today, everyone's loving it. I must say, I'm so happy with today's RUKIND spirit and comraderie. Especially over the past few months, our active membership has grown with wonderful new contributors. Was a time this place was crickets for days. Now, I find myself checking back in multiple times a day because there's almost always something new to read and learn.

Your knowledge is good and your reviews thorough. You've just convinced me that taking a chance experimenting with one of these pedals is the most fun I can have now for$39.99! I'm ready to order my own Joyo American Sound today but before I do, is yours the model # JF-14 (there are several different listings of this pedal on Amazon - the colors of the pedal vary somewhat and some of the listings say JF14 and some don't)?

Bottom line: Who says all is bleak in the Covid wintertime?!

Jon thanks for the kind words! You are right about making lemonade out of lemons! This is fun!

Yes, it is the JF-14 (only says this in the box)

I got mine used (mint with box) for $30 + shipping

BTW - I am not necessarily a tone snob (as you might have already figured out) but for $40 you can have a lot of fun with this pedal IMHO!!

I was curious about the American Sound. Because the cab sim can't be defeated, opinions seem mixed on how it fared with a regular speaker and/or in front of a regular amp as an OD.

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:46 pm... for $40 you can have a lot of fun with this pedal IMHO!!

What an exaggerator! Via Amazon Prime (free shipping but + tax), I actually had to sock out $42.39.

EDIT: TGP's love for this pedal: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... k.2176463/

ssmug wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:02 pm I was curious about the American Sound. Because the cab sim can't be defeated, opinions seem mixed on how it fared with a regular speaker and/or in front of a regular amp as an OD.

Yeah it definitely wasn’t my favorite overdrive - it has a very sharp presence - doesn’t blend in very well with the preamp. But it works, I mean you can dial it in to sound decent - I’m surprised that anyone could actually complain for $40 - but yeah there are better overdrives - check out the Sweet Baby!

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:21 pm

ssmug wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:02 pm I was curious about the American Sound. Because the cab sim can't be defeated, opinions seem mixed on how it fared with a regular speaker and/or in front of a regular amp as an OD.

Yeah it definitely wasn’t my favorite overdrive - it has a very sharp presence - doesn’t blend in very well with the preamp. But it works, I mean you can dial it in to sound decent - I’m surprised that anyone could actually complain for $40 - but yeah there are better overdrives - check out the Sweet Baby!

But you (obviously) didn't have any issues using it as a pre-amp into the Carvin and JBL. I wasn't sure what would happen when you use a cab sim with an actual speaker cab.

tdcrjeff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:07 pm

Question for tdcrjeff - if you plug into just one of the two Carvin pedal amp inputs, are both outputs active (i.e., so you can drive two separate cabs with the single input)? I'd guess, because it's marked "mono," the answer is yes but just to be sure ... Thanks.

I’m glad the Joyo American Sound is reviewing well as a budget option. Like I said previously, I haven’t chased Jerry tone with it, per se, but he is always in the back of my mind when shaping my own tone. I have been pleased with what this very affordable pedal can do to get in that zone.

When I was house jamming direct into a mixer -> PA, it put some punch back into my tone that was severely lacking and made it easier for me to hear myself, and sound like myself, in the mix, which was a challenge with all instruments sharing two PA speakers, including bass, keys and e-drums, plus another guitar, the host’s, that was always about 50% of the total volume. Without the JAS, my playing felt like shouting with someone else’s voice and was very unsatisfying. With the pedal my attack and articulation were better defined and I could relax and play, rather than pound away and strain to hear.

I’ll also reiterate that it improves the sound of my little stock 5w G5222 (Gretsch branded version of a Fender Champ, just a volume knob, no tone control,) like pulling a thick, wet blanket off and adding some sparkle.

Jon S. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:41 pm

tdcrjeff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:07 pm

Question for tdcrjeff - if you plug into just one of the two Carvin pedal amp inputs, are both outputs active (i.e., so you can drive two separate cabs with the single input)? I'd guess, because it's marked "mono," the answer is yes but just to be sure ... Thanks.

Yes I can drive two cabs using the mono input and then running out to two speakers

ssmug wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:33 pm

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:21 pm

ssmug wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:02 pm I was curious about the American Sound. Because the cab sim can't be defeated, opinions seem mixed on how it fared with a regular speaker and/or in front of a regular amp as an OD.

Yeah it definitely wasn’t my favorite overdrive - it has a very sharp presence - doesn’t blend in very well with the preamp. But it works, I mean you can dial it in to sound decent - I’m surprised that anyone could actually complain for $40 - but yeah there are better overdrives - check out the Sweet Baby!

But you (obviously) didn't have any issues using it as a pre-amp into the Carvin and JBL. I wasn't sure what would happen when you use a cab sim with an actual speaker cab.

Right, using it as a preamp I though it sounded good, as a tone shaper. Do you know what the cab sim is? It seemed to blend pretty well with the (JBL open back cab)
I reiterate though that I am not a tone snob and I wouldn’t find it useful to bash a $40 pedal for something subjective. I mean, if someone is going to be a tone snob then they should be willing to pay up for it. You can’t expect this to be the BEST option, but it is a GOOD option if you are on a budget. I mean, it gets the job done in terms of giving you a Twin like tone and a headroom friendly platform for your other pedals