[jck_strw]

St. Stephen!

[kevo]

Alligator!

[BuddhaG]

my question here is: is wikipedia actually free???

it is not free to maintain such a vast amount of bandwidth and to have millions of people accessing said information. the money comes from somewhere.

you guys have pretty much exhausted the topic but i just wanted to add that money is just a formality. it must be there for our world to go around, unless you wanna live in the woods or on a self-sufficient commune (nice thought but unprobable).

so why did Grisman take his shit down? probably because there is a potential to make some money off the videos. possibly because google shouldn't be making money off his videos. maybe he's just paranoid... honestly i dont think it makes a huge difference if his videos are online or not. just respect the mans decision.

either way, he and his label passed judgement on the availability of the videos online and decided that it was not worth it to them to have this stuff up there. personally, i'd like the chance to view the videos but its his choice ultimately anyway. respect to the man for being assertive, however pissed any of you may be. go see the man live and pay him his dues.

[shakedown_04092]

so why did Grisman take his shit down? probably because there is a potential to make some money off the videos. possibly because google shouldn't be making money off his videos. maybe he's just paranoid... honestly i dont think it makes a huge difference if his videos are online or not. just respect the mans decision.

either way, he and his label passed judgement on the availability of the videos online and decided that it was not worth it to them to have this stuff up there. personally, i'd like the chance to view the videos but its his choice ultimately anyway. respect to the man for being assertive, however pissed any of you may be. go see the man live and pay him his dues.

Well put. It IS his decision in the long run. I wish I'd have seen the vids too, but hopefully he'll produce it someday, and I'll be more than willing to pay for it (long as it's not overpriced!)

Lots of good arguments on both sides, though. Nice reading your intelligent thoughts.

[mutant_dan]

Looking over the listing on db.etree.org for Garcia & Grisman, Sweetwater 12-17-90, it looks like there are a bazillion DVD copies in circulation.

I know it seems a little old fasioned but anyone who really wants a copy could request a trade or grovel for a torrent..

[mttourpro]

A quick comment about the McDonald's analogy.

I bet if someone stole or used their logo or stole/used their recipe for some product/taste unique to them and made profit from it, they'd be sueing over it.

ASCAP makes bars pay a fee to have songs in their juke-boxes, right?

Just because someone still "has it" doesn't mean that there was not some "theft".

[LazyLightnin]

i've watched Grisman on youtube, i liked it so much i went out and bought the album. i hadnt heard of the lawsuit, now i feel kinda disgruntled......

[LazyLightnin]

btw Grisman didnt look like he was doing bad in those vids, id be willing to bet he fits in a 6-7 figure tax bracket. too much of everything is not enough?

[amyjared]

Just because someone still "has it" doesn't mean that there was not some "theft".

You are 100% correct, and I disagree with it completely. My definition of theft/stealing is taking something so that the person doesn't have it anymore.

Strummin, don't hold it in, it's ok, as I said before I respect your opinion and like to read it, whether I agree or not.

jck_strw, always nice to see your take on things, keep em coming!

You guys make my day brighter, thanks so much!

[jck_strw]

jck_strw, always nice to see your take on things, keep em coming!

One of my better contributions, no? :)

This thread just reminded me of that moment in the Grateful Dead Movie when the guy who feels he's being exploited by the movie-making people and the other guy (John Williams?) are arguing. And the big dude in the middle is just standing there listening to all of this and then yells 'St Stephen!'. I love that. Great non-sequitur.

[mttourpro]

amyjared, I understand your point but, I have to disagree when you say "they still have it". In my view, "IT" boils down to having absolute control over what they produced and own. I think if video taping was permitted (in concert), then it implies relinquishing "it". If it was not allowed, then I think he has a beef.

I think the real arguement is, should someone be able to maintain SOLE control over something they invented, did, produced, etc when it's not possible to patent it??

[Django]

Should I be forced to pay multiple times for someones intellectual property? I bought the Allman Brothers Band "Live at Filmore East" album on 8track, LP, and CD. It appears I was charged 3 times for the same product. Where do I get my rebate?
Ronster that was great!
HearitSpirit - I can see your point, I want to see Grisman on youtube but maybe we better back the individual all we can because this juggernaut of technology is gonna run us over eventually, best to get some personal rights grandfathered in while we still can.

[Shaggy]

I get the feeling this might fall into two groups:

1. The non musician fans that want everything for free and think it should all be there easily reachable.

2. The people that are or have been musicians/artists etc. Knowing what it's like to do anything to get your name out there and taking any gig going.

[amyjared]

I get the feeling this might fall into two groups:

1. The non musician fans that want everything for free and think it should all be there easily reachable.

2. The people that are or have been musicians/artists etc. Knowing what it's like to do anything to get your name out there and taking any gig going.

Not necessarily. I don't know anyone who wants it ALL free and I know many many musicians who aren't famous yet who put out much of their work for free because they want other to listen to it. I wish it were that black and white, but it's not. The difference is that the Dead were forerunners because they allowed taping of shows. People readily swapped sb's and now they're backpeddling and saying they never allowed it. I am all for people making money from their music, but what is considered enough and who gets to decide?

[Shaggy]

I agree it's not that black and white, nothing ever really is.

But in this case without straying off the map too much I really can't be anything but supportive towards Grisman in this case.