Grateful Dead Music Forum

Here's my Tele. American Standard with Alembic pickups, Babicz bridge, and custom pick-guard.

Bill, tgo


For some reason, I can't get the pics to post, so here's s link to a thread over at the Alembic site about the guitar.

[url]https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=16543.0[/url]

Looks good

Mike Wald confirmed for me that both Alligator and Wolf ( pre ‘75) had Alnico 3s with ‘54 staggered pups

Looks like the D Allen Tru 54s might be the best bet

BTW it’s been a month since I ordered those A3s from bootstrap and they still havnt shipped not have I heard anything from them in regards to when they might be done

Sic:
Jerry had every oppurtunity to play Fender Stratocasters. Strats were available since the Fall of 1954, so by late 1969 when he is first seen with one. What were not too much available at that time were the early 54, 55 Strats. Jerry played a 63 and some others up to 71 when Alligator arrives. Something about Alligator made him want to play it regularly, and for the next couple years until Wolf's arrival. That said, Wolf was wired the same as Alligator was with the one exception of the added ProtoBlaster bypass switch.

I have shown for comparison what a set of Alnico 3 pickups with a 54 pole stagger vs an Alnico 5 set the 56 staggered poles.

The difference between a 54 and 56 stagger lies in the lower G pole than the D pole for a 54. They are relatively the same height with a 56 stagger.

Alligator and Wolf through 75 had Fender A3 54 Staggered pickups, a unique sound and feel derived from their physical characteristics.

I believe the lower G pole was consistent with the use of wound G strings, far more common in 1954. I’m about to wind some sets of Alligator PUs using the ‘55 stagger, A3 poles with vintage bevel, and heavy formvar wire. For the most part I like an Alligator to look close to the original, but don’t mind essentially non-visible mods that make it play or sound better. The ‘55 stagger works better with a plain G.

Bill, tgo

lbpesq wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:05 pm I believe the lower G pole was consistent with the use of wound G strings, far more common in 1954. I’m about to wind some sets of Alligator PUs using the ‘55 stagger, A3 poles with vintage bevel, and heavy formvar wire. For the most part I like an Alligator to look close to the original, but don’t mind essentially non-visible mods that make it play or sound better. The ‘55 stagger works better with a plain G.

Bill, tgo

Are you sure there is a ‘55 stagger as I think they only made pickups in ‘54 and 56/57’ - from my research ‘55 was an off year for Fender pups

It might very well be ‘56. I don’t think record keeping or consistency was all that important to Fender in those days. But I believe it was right around that time that they changed the G pole to reflect the plain G overtaking the wound G in popularity.

Bill, tgo

lbpesq wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 10:58 am It might very well be ‘56. I don’t think record keeping or consistency was all that important to Fender in those days. But I believe it was right around that time that they changed the G pole to reflect the plain G overtaking the wound G in popularity.

Bill, tgo

Would Jerry have been using the plain G with the 54’ stagger wouldn’t that be important for the tone he was getting?

More likely he would have compensated by hitting the G just a little harder, assuming he noticed a difference. I seriously doubt the secret to Jerry’s tone was the lower G pole.

Bill, tgo

lbpesq wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 5:14 pm More likely he would have compensated by hitting the G just a little harder, assuming he noticed a difference. I seriously doubt the secret to Jerry’s tone was the lower G pole.

Bill, tgo

It must have contributed to some extent IMHO but I get what you are saying - not a deal breaker in your estimation

I find guitars to be like cars ... they all work essentially the same, but each has its own idiosyncrasies and has to be driven slightly differently to obtain the same results. I have a couple of guitars where the high E string puts out less signal than the others. It is especially noticeable when the E doesn’t trigger the envelope filter. So on those guitars I just hit harder on the high E. If I were building an “exact” copy and could fix this, I would, rather than recreate the issue.

I think if Jerry were to play two otherwise identical Strats, one with ‘54 stagger and the other with the ‘56 stagger, he would figure out how to get the G on both to sound the same, just how he wanted it to sound. I think what I’m trying to say is that Jerry dictated the instrument’s sound far more than the instrument dictated Jerry’s sound.

Bill, tgo

lbpesq wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:53 pm I find guitars to be like cars ... they all work essentially the same, but each has its own idiosyncrasies and has to be driven slightly differently to obtain the same results. I have a couple of guitars where the high E string puts out less signal than the others. It is especially noticeable when the E doesn’t trigger the envelope filter. So on those guitars I just hit harder on the high E. If I were building an “exact” copy and could fix this, I would, rather than recreate the issue.

I think if Jerry were to play two otherwise identical Strats, one with ‘54 stagger and the other with the ‘56 stagger, he would figure out how to get the G on both to sound the same, just how he wanted it to sound. I think what I’m trying to say is that Jerry dictated the instrument’s sound far more than the instrument dictated Jerry’s sound.

Bill, tgo

What your saying makes sense but “tone” coming from the instrument is different than “sound” created by technique etc. For example he couldn’t make Fender A3s sound like Dual sounds regardless of his technique. If you could make any guitar sound the same then why would you ever change the components of the guitar?

With the high E issue I just tilt my pickups so that the gradually slant up toward the high E string and so that they are lower under the low strings - that way you don’t have to play differently or think about hitting one string harder than the other.

Interestingly here is an audio clip of Jerry snorting it up with some fans back stage before a show - around the 18 minute mark he talks about the magnetic pull of pickups and how he prefers pickups with less magnetic pull -

Also my research has turned up that (according to Irwin via Waldo’s Instagram feed) he had prototype Dimarzio FS-1s in Wolf along with a Fender pup in the neck during this clip being recorded in 1977 (he says he doesn’t remember the name of who made them)
Interestingly he also had SDS-1s in Wolf for much of 1978 after he switched to them in the middle of a show. Then the Dual sounds arrived and the rest is pretty well known.

https://youtu.be/awgXd6sezF4

Okay so here is a comparison between Jerry playing the A5 ‘56 stagger and the A3 ‘54 stagger
Same amps speakers and same song played in the same era

‘56
https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1970 ... urce=88947

‘54 (Alligator)
https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1971 ... urce=89316

To my ears there’s a difference. What do you guys think?

Too many variables to determine the difference based on the height of the G pole. A3s vs. A5 magnets. Different venues? Different mics? Different recorders? Different PA? Different engineers? Who knows?

Bill, tgo

lbpesq wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 5:08 pm Too many variables to determine the difference based on the height of the G pole. A3s vs. A5 magnets. Different venues? Different mics? Different recorders? Different PA? Different engineers? Who knows?

Bill, tgo

But which tone do you prefer?
Also Bobby’s tone sounds nearly identical in both clips
My argument would be @if it ain’t broke why fix it?”
If the tone is good then why change the magnet height?

If there are so many variables in listening to Dead shows then wouldn’t it be impossible to draw any conclusions about Jerry’s tone based on listening?
This is the logic of your argument.