Grateful Dead Music Forum

Sorry to hear, dudes. Been there on many fronts. Seems like some common problems can be avoided by:
1 - having a clear mission - freq of gigs, rehearsals, songs, etc, etc
2 - an altruistic band leader

Good luck.

GDad - I feel your pain nothing much is accomplished by half-assing your way through a bunch of tunes when there are spots where everyone is not on the same page. My theory of a rehearsal is that if there are tunes to learn, no more than 3 at a time. Agree to them beforehand so there's not an hour of debate before starting to make some music. You can't really digest much more than that. Also, no more than two hours at a time, after that people's eyes glaze over and they stop paying attention. I also don't like to over-rehearse. Beating the life out of a song by constant repetition = stale performance IMHO. Three chord songs you can work out over the phone. Unbroken Chain, on the other hand, you'd better get the parts right or you are inviting a train wreck. It sounds like you know what needs to be done and are just facing an uphill struggle with your band mates. I think if you can get them to trust your judgment they will see the rewards, i.e. stuff sounds better.

My theory on rehearsal is that you are not ready to rehearse a song if everyone does not know how to play it. Folks should show up knowing the chords, scales, drum pattern, etc and use rehearsal for putting everything together. It gets frustrating teaching someone a song at a rehearsal.

My theory on rehearsal is that you are not ready to rehearse a song if everyone does not know how to play it. Folks should show up knowing the chords, scales, drum pattern, etc and use rehearsal for putting everything together. It gets frustrating teaching someone a song at a rehearsal.

this is absolutely key. when we decide to rehearse a new song i expect everyone to do their homework. if one guy shows up confused or lost, we either crank up the laptop or just scrap it till next time. trying to teach anyone parts they should know already is working from behind and wastes a lot of time. ive quit a few bands and fired several others on account of this. too often i end up giving guitar lessons to bass players, bringing enough notes for everyone, having to burn cd's and or providing an audio source at rehearsal. that's a lot of work after arranging it all myself at home beforehand. though, i'm willing to bend and be flexible just to keep the band going, there comes a time when someone gets axed when a pattern emerges, and thats not to say that a guy might not love the music and want to play it but folks do get lazy out here

Not to mention trying to jam with people that just don't get understand the ide aof jamming. It's like trying to play basketball with people that don't move on offense...they don't DO anything

Great thread. We've been together about 9 months and have gigged once. We are geographically dispersed and getting time to practice together requires a ridiculous amount of planning. As a result we usually go 4-5 hours. On the other hand, we get along great. No divas, no real leader and best of all everyone is a huge Head. This makes it real easy to work up songs because everyone knows how they go. It's just a matter of agreeing on how we are going to play a particular tune. Only our drummer has every been in a band and that was decades ago. So we are pretty much the blind leading the blind. It's a hoot to see how things are developing.

dleonard wrote:Not to mention trying to jam with people that just don't get understand the ide aof jamming. It's like trying to play basketball with people that don't move on offense...they don't DO anything

That's when it's good to be the bass player. It's like being the puppet-master... you WILL jam when I tell you to.

strumminsix wrote: 2 - an altruistic band leader

does this even exist

Even making the best plans and having a mission statement that everyone buys into is no guarantee. People take gigs with the best of intentions or will say what is necessary to get a gig and then decide that's not what they want and either move on or try to mold the group to their liking once they are entrenched. The only thing you can count on in bands as in life, is change - being aware of issues and confronting them early on is your best chance or to be able to move on yourself if things aren't going in a direction that makes you happy. I have taken a couple of short breaks from my band in the last 24+ years. Once in a vain attempt to salvage a school semester and once when my daughter was born. There were no guarantees that my spot would be open if and when I was ready to return though thankfully it worked out as there is a shortage of Dead-style lead guitarists here. We have been through a lot of lineup changes over the years and there are only two of us left from our original lineup 24 years ago - though most of the others come back from time to time to play at least a couple times a year. Roll with the punches is all you can do.

tcsned wrote:

strumminsix wrote: 2 - an altruistic band leader

does this even exist

Even making the best plans and having a mission statement that everyone buys into is no guarantee. People take gigs with the best of intentions or will say what is necessary to get a gig and then decide that's not what they want and either move on or try to mold the group to their liking once they are entrenched. The only thing you can count on in bands as in life, is change - being aware of issues and confronting them early on is your best chance or to be able to move on yourself if things aren't going in a direction that makes you happy. I have taken a couple of short breaks from my band in the last 24+ years. Once in a vain attempt to salvage a school semester and once when my daughter was born. There were no guarantees that my spot would be open if and when I was ready to return though thankfully it worked out as there is a shortage of Dead-style lead guitarists here. We have been through a lot of lineup changes over the years and there are only two of us left from our original lineup 24 years ago - though most of the others come back from time to time to play at least a couple times a year. Roll with the punches is all you can do.

Yes, they do. Or they can try.

If you are a band without a mission statement or plan you can expect flakes and folks disbanding. It's big miss from the start to have a band where one guy quits since you gig too much and another quits since you don't gig enough.

"You cannot control the actions of others, you can only control yourself."

Anyone who has ever played in a band has dealt with these age-old problems. I knew a band in high school where the drummer was the popular kid and kept telling them that he should set up IN FRONT of the rest of the band, because everyone was there to see him, anyway1

I am lucky to be in a great band, but we are all over 40 (some over 60!) and have dealt with all the bullshit before. We save time by getting together with the vocalist and the guitarists and work out songs before we bring them to the drummer/bass/piano player as they seem to do well and not make as many errors. It saves time when we have limited practice time since everyone has jobs, families, etc. All I can say is good luck with it. When I hear of bands breaking up, I think, "yeah, I totally understand." Bottom line: At least you're IN a band and playing music!

strumminsix wrote: Yes, they do. Or they can try.

If you are a band without a mission statement or plan you can expect flakes and folks disbanding. It's big miss from the start to have a band where one guy quits since you gig too much and another quits since you don't gig enough.

I agree, I was just joking as I recently saw a documentary about Wilco and there was some pretty funny stuff (not funny for his bandmates) of the lead singer talking about them being a circle and that every circle needs a center (I'm guessing he was talking about himself). I totally agree about the mission statement part - it's essential to every business not just bands. It's one of the first things we do with a new client at work before setting up a leadership development program is to work with them to craft or revise their mission, vision, and values statements. A mission statement gives you a framework that makes other decisions a lot easier. Even with these things there's no guarantee but it is certainly a better place to be.

We have had issues with this lately. When I took my hiatus the rest of them continued playing but had no one who could really play Jerry parts (not that I think that I'm that great, but that stuff is in my wheelhouse if I have one). They started playing a bunch of more standard classic rock stuff. When I returned I had a bass player that didn't really like playing GD music or didn't respect what it has to offer and played it very begrudgingly. The old bass player got disinterested when I left as it wasn't the same anymore. So when I returned so did Slash (the bass player when I left) and we have had to manage the other bass player who still plays some gigs when Slash isn't available. So we have kind of become schizophrenic. We are resolving the issue but it was born out of a desire to book gigs no matter if they were a good fit. People wanting R&B tunes, southern rock, whatever they would take the gigs and it wound up hurting the band as people didn't know what to expect when they came out.

As to the leader, even Machiavelli said the best of all possible situations is a benign dictator or altruistic leader - having someone to make the call that has everyone's best interests at heart not just selfishness is ideal.

It's like trying to play basketball with people that don't move on offense...they don't DO anything

HEY! i'm from cleveland!

The main problem I see is that life gets in the way of having fun. My idea is for the band to go somewhere for an entire week and do nothing but play 12 hrs a day. It's a dream and it will never happen.

mk

strumminsix wrote:. . .
1 - having a clear mission - freq of gigs, rehearsals, songs, etc, etc
2 - an altruistic band leader

Good luck.

Some simple truth there. For example the most success I ever had was a loose blues jam group. Our Band leader singer/other guitarist had a strong personality. We could fight like cats and dogs the two of us, just bad. Now here is the thing we never took it personally. We could wake up the next morning and joke about it. No hard feelings ever. it might sound strange but true.
He was a great band leader. We all knew he would never hurt anyone but would take the initiative to stop something that wasn't working or start something new. His personality really made the difference. Because if it wasn't fun he would stop it and say lets have fun doing something else.

We were also clear on a mission. We just played for our hippie friends, house and beach parties or such. But only for fun.

Well I was younger then and it was the 80s

you make a good point, NOT TAKING IT OR MEANING IT PERSONALLY. That is a big point. I play with a bass player who wears a shirt that says "do I look like a people person?" He has been pretty hard on some drummers we have played with because he's played with some of the best out there. He doesn't mean it personally, sometimes doesn't use a lot of tact, but is also almost always right. Some have wilted under this because of their own insecurities, some have thrived. It's always about making the music better and not over trivial shit. It's ok to argue and fight as long as it is about the music. If it becomes about the people then it's time to move on.

Here is an example to help with this "altruistic band leader" point.

We were working on a Row Jimmy and had it about 95% but it was obvious something small was off.

I figured it out, timing on some chord changes that should have been:
A / / G / D A /

Half the band thought it was:
A / / G / D / A

Immediately we hit the iPod, checked out the studio a 70s cut and an 80s or 90s cut and were aligned.

There were no hard feelings, nobody felt insulted, nobody felt like they were conducted, we aligned and grew.