bobby's got all sorts of cool, definitve licks. he's a great performer when he's 'on'. cheeseball, yes, but still cool.
- wrs > let it grow (great changes, awesome jams)
- lazy lightnin > supplication (i love odd times)
- jack straw (73-74 personally)
- btw (same as above)
- lost sailor (always dug it)
- victim ( i like dark, this one is dark)
- hell in a bucket!! (rocks. i like the bill graham tribute version)
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[quote="eyeprod"]
- hell in a bucket!! (rocks. i like the bill graham tribute version)[/quote]
That is one of the versions I used to learn the tune! Assuming we are talking about the video, yes?
It's good stuff indeedy!
- hell in a bucket!! (rocks. i like the bill graham tribute version)[/quote]
That is one of the versions I used to learn the tune! Assuming we are talking about the video, yes?
It's good stuff indeedy!
You folks got it right. Bobby is definately an amazing player but quite the cheeseball! A friend on tour years ago said to me: "Bobby just wants to wear spandex and shake his ass at the crowd!" Prob'ly pretty close to the truth. While we made fun of him, I wouldn't have traded him for anyone else in the world. Sure he played "bathroom songs" and slide that made Duane Allman turn over in his grave, but the man has a keen sense of chords and rhythm like you can't imagine unless you play guitar. IMO, his best song is Music Never Stopped.
"The only funeral you should ever try to interrupt is your own, and that should be a full-time job." -Kinky Friedman
"Bathroom songs" that term makes me laugh... I almost never had to go to the bathroom at over 150 shows attended, because I would dance and sweat so much, to EVERY song, every tuning and warm-up, and every last stretched out ending note.
Come to think of it, I hardly ever use the bathroom at my gigs either, even though I drink water constantly, because the stagelights get me sweating it all out. I've spent upwards of six hours in a nightclub and never even see the inside of the mens' room!
Bobby has taken so much undeserving crap over the years, and it makes me a little sick. It's almost as if he gets made fun of because he's... not Jerry. So yeah, he's got a pretty cheesy sense of humor... what does it have to do with the all the great music he's written or been an integral part of?
Come to think of it, I hardly ever use the bathroom at my gigs either, even though I drink water constantly, because the stagelights get me sweating it all out. I've spent upwards of six hours in a nightclub and never even see the inside of the mens' room!
Bobby has taken so much undeserving crap over the years, and it makes me a little sick. It's almost as if he gets made fun of because he's... not Jerry. So yeah, he's got a pretty cheesy sense of humor... what does it have to do with the all the great music he's written or been an integral part of?
Music Never Stopped
Sugar Magnolia
Jack Straw
Let It Grow
I like nearly everything else he wrote too. Hell in a Bucket, early versions of Playing in the Band and St of Circumstance.
Bob turned himself into a very fine composer and interesting guitarist, something he simply had to do - since he was under pressure to start writing and come to grips with the instrument more and he did. He simply couldn't play like an average rhythm player in a normal rock band because the Dead were complex than that. In no other band would Bob have survived as long as he did, thankfully he wasn't in any other band!
His songs are often a bit obtuse and take a long time to evolve on stage, they weren't as accessable as Jerry's songs, but Jerry was a more gifted composer. But you could say Bob was just as original in his own way. It is often Jerry's riffs that are the standout points in Bob's songs and at times I found it frustrating how Bob didn't nail the rhythm at times, rather, just flutter and play small clusters of rhythm all over the map. Many times it was Jerry who really nailed the rhythm of a song, Garcia's ability to play lead and rhythm at the same time...like his ability to switch between flat and fingerpicking was simply outstanding. You will note that Jerry hardly ever played with a rhythm guitarist in his solo ventures whilst Bob has always surrounded himself with lots of Jerry-like lead guitarists in his solo ventures. That says alot.
I'm not bashing Bob here, I love him and his songs as they have been the soundtrack to my life.
Sugar Magnolia
Jack Straw
Let It Grow
I like nearly everything else he wrote too. Hell in a Bucket, early versions of Playing in the Band and St of Circumstance.
Bob turned himself into a very fine composer and interesting guitarist, something he simply had to do - since he was under pressure to start writing and come to grips with the instrument more and he did. He simply couldn't play like an average rhythm player in a normal rock band because the Dead were complex than that. In no other band would Bob have survived as long as he did, thankfully he wasn't in any other band!
His songs are often a bit obtuse and take a long time to evolve on stage, they weren't as accessable as Jerry's songs, but Jerry was a more gifted composer. But you could say Bob was just as original in his own way. It is often Jerry's riffs that are the standout points in Bob's songs and at times I found it frustrating how Bob didn't nail the rhythm at times, rather, just flutter and play small clusters of rhythm all over the map. Many times it was Jerry who really nailed the rhythm of a song, Garcia's ability to play lead and rhythm at the same time...like his ability to switch between flat and fingerpicking was simply outstanding. You will note that Jerry hardly ever played with a rhythm guitarist in his solo ventures whilst Bob has always surrounded himself with lots of Jerry-like lead guitarists in his solo ventures. That says alot.
I'm not bashing Bob here, I love him and his songs as they have been the soundtrack to my life.
It is a very interesting (and accurate observation) about Jerry nevery playing with another guitaris in his side bands. However at the same time whomever he had on keys was more dominant than any keyboardist he had with the GD therefore he had no true need for another guitarist.
Additionally, many Jerry side bands took a more Jazz approach by stacking simple and few layers to make a sonically beautiful performance.
I remember reading (or listening) to Jerry talk after Healy got fired about the difference between the stage mix vs. the house mix and remarked how their sound was "cheated" by Bobby being so low in the house mix while he was very present in the stage mix and that gave him (Jerry) a beautiful pallet to paint (play) with during jams. The fat man went on to say that Bobby would play a lot of 6ths and other non-standard chords which gave Jerry the ability to play at a higher level of intricacy and depth than the straight ahead rhythm would have allowed.
It's ironic to think of Bobby's role with the GD being his "only way to the top". We know he was a guitar teacher while in high school which says a lot and an avid fan of country. We also know that TC was a friend of Phil's and TC was the reason the GD took the turn they did. We also know that Phil never played bass before meeting JG. We also know that Pig pushed for them to go electric.
The GD were a series of lucky breaks all the way down the line.
Personally, I feel if you took out the relationships you'd most likely have seen the individual members like so:
Jerry - playing folk with his Sara
Bob - playing country with some success especially cuz of his looks and charm
Phil - Jazz trumpet
Billy - playing drums and most likely the most successful
Pig - bay area r&b legend as a white man with the soul of a black man
Mickey - who knows!?
Remember, the comparison to JGB isn't truly all that fair. The JGB success was largely based on on GD fans. Had the GD never existed, I doubt JGB would have ever been a success.
Additionally, many Jerry side bands took a more Jazz approach by stacking simple and few layers to make a sonically beautiful performance.
I remember reading (or listening) to Jerry talk after Healy got fired about the difference between the stage mix vs. the house mix and remarked how their sound was "cheated" by Bobby being so low in the house mix while he was very present in the stage mix and that gave him (Jerry) a beautiful pallet to paint (play) with during jams. The fat man went on to say that Bobby would play a lot of 6ths and other non-standard chords which gave Jerry the ability to play at a higher level of intricacy and depth than the straight ahead rhythm would have allowed.
It's ironic to think of Bobby's role with the GD being his "only way to the top". We know he was a guitar teacher while in high school which says a lot and an avid fan of country. We also know that TC was a friend of Phil's and TC was the reason the GD took the turn they did. We also know that Phil never played bass before meeting JG. We also know that Pig pushed for them to go electric.
The GD were a series of lucky breaks all the way down the line.
Personally, I feel if you took out the relationships you'd most likely have seen the individual members like so:
Jerry - playing folk with his Sara
Bob - playing country with some success especially cuz of his looks and charm
Phil - Jazz trumpet
Billy - playing drums and most likely the most successful
Pig - bay area r&b legend as a white man with the soul of a black man
Mickey - who knows!?
Remember, the comparison to JGB isn't truly all that fair. The JGB success was largely based on on GD fans. Had the GD never existed, I doubt JGB would have ever been a success.
You are slightly taking me out of context, I'm not comparing the two bands - GD and JGB. I am looking at Jerry as a guitarist and Bob.
Jerry needed his solo band, it was an outlet for him free of other influence, it was him and John Kahn getting together and jamming, other musicans came and went. But he played longer solo's in his band, he often played his guitar louder and got to stretch his rhythm chops with just someone on the keys not another guitar. He needed that release, he loved it, he got out a whole ton of music and other songs he wanted to do that were areas that the Dead might not have covered. Same goes for his Grisman work and his other session stuff. Yes it was secondary to the Dead and a minor little sub-plot to the massive dead machine but still important to Jerry. For me Legion of Mary is possibly the apex of Garcia's playing, combining lead and rhythm playing in a brilliant manner.
We all know about Healy fooling around with Bob's guitar and set-up. Bob was a very important cog in the dead's wheel and I'm glad he wasn't replaced when he might have been in the late 60's(by David Nelson possibly).
I'm not disputing his contribution to the cause or his ability but he is only good in his own context. His solo bands are filled with Jerry-like lead players. I do believe that Bob's whole career came off Jerry, it was jerry's gift of time to Bob for him to devolpe that saved him from getting the chop. Truth is the buck did always stop with Jerry, he was the musical leader.
To speculate what they would have done if they never came together is a little hard to do, no can know that.
But I do agree with David Grisman when he said that without Jerry none of them would have had a career.
But I still love Bob and think he's great and never would I put down his contribution. But Jerry was such a giant(no pun intended) of man, with his ability, intelligence and intellect that he will overshadow the rest.
Jerry needed his solo band, it was an outlet for him free of other influence, it was him and John Kahn getting together and jamming, other musicans came and went. But he played longer solo's in his band, he often played his guitar louder and got to stretch his rhythm chops with just someone on the keys not another guitar. He needed that release, he loved it, he got out a whole ton of music and other songs he wanted to do that were areas that the Dead might not have covered. Same goes for his Grisman work and his other session stuff. Yes it was secondary to the Dead and a minor little sub-plot to the massive dead machine but still important to Jerry. For me Legion of Mary is possibly the apex of Garcia's playing, combining lead and rhythm playing in a brilliant manner.
We all know about Healy fooling around with Bob's guitar and set-up. Bob was a very important cog in the dead's wheel and I'm glad he wasn't replaced when he might have been in the late 60's(by David Nelson possibly).
I'm not disputing his contribution to the cause or his ability but he is only good in his own context. His solo bands are filled with Jerry-like lead players. I do believe that Bob's whole career came off Jerry, it was jerry's gift of time to Bob for him to devolpe that saved him from getting the chop. Truth is the buck did always stop with Jerry, he was the musical leader.
To speculate what they would have done if they never came together is a little hard to do, no can know that.
But I do agree with David Grisman when he said that without Jerry none of them would have had a career.
But I still love Bob and think he's great and never would I put down his contribution. But Jerry was such a giant(no pun intended) of man, with his ability, intelligence and intellect that he will overshadow the rest.
So you know, my response wasn't defensive nor did I mean to take you out of context. I will always believe that it was the unique combination and random meetings that made the GD what it was and that without everythin lining up the way it did they would never have made it.
BTW, we totally agree. I feel LOM was the shining moment for JG in all of his side projects.
BTW, we totally agree. I feel LOM was the shining moment for JG in all of his side projects.
As a side note.....
I always thought that the Dead's handling of solo careers was the model every other band should live by. As was said previously, Jerry's side gigs were very important to him, and I think the same goes for Bob. Bob was able to do things solo that were very different from what the Dead were doing.
So when I hear about a Sting leaving the Police or a Natalie Merchant leaving 10,000 Maniacs to persue solo careers, I cringe, and I ask why is it that the GD could handle this stuff while few others can? Then I tend to shut the "leaver" out.
I always thought that the Dead's handling of solo careers was the model every other band should live by. As was said previously, Jerry's side gigs were very important to him, and I think the same goes for Bob. Bob was able to do things solo that were very different from what the Dead were doing.
So when I hear about a Sting leaving the Police or a Natalie Merchant leaving 10,000 Maniacs to persue solo careers, I cringe, and I ask why is it that the GD could handle this stuff while few others can? Then I tend to shut the "leaver" out.
this is a great discussion, let's not get to heated over it.
agreed on the handling of solo careers
i agree that without bobby the dead just would not be what they are. he did a great job of finding a niche in the band. his guitar style is original and interesting. his vocals are very 'black licorice' which is part of jerry's defintion of the band anyway. he's perfect. just like all the other members, he cannot be replaced.
as for his rhythm playing, i think the sound of the dead is based around the band interaction; they're all playing different parts that interlock. a band with this many players does not require the rhythm guitarist to strum the chords or hold down the rhythm. the drummers and bassist are doing that, and i love the way bobby fills these little gaps in the song with interesting bursts of cool guitar.
you can really hear bobby well on some tapes, and personally these are most of the favorites in my collection. my fav is early 70's, but i dig the tones he was coming up with in the 90's. the heavy distorted, enveloped tones he would sometimes use on later tunes like picasso moon(i likethe tones not the tune really) seem like they evolved from estimated. he seems to posess a certain mastery over his style and plays comfortably from what i've seen.
i've seen plenty of early ratdog shows with no other guitarist, tho i was hoping henry kaiser would have really joined him at the pignic in 95. have you heard that tape of special k band recorded in japan? weir and kaiser were awesome together i think. i would have much rather seen kaiser in there than jimmy herring. i dont know the story behind that, if any, but seriously man imo henry kaiser kicks ass by taking the music up a notch and jimmy herring is a subpar jerry guitar impersonator.
oh, and about that bg tribute. i only have a tape of the show in gg park after bg died. the energy was hot, and how about those creedence covers?
agreed on the handling of solo careers
i agree that without bobby the dead just would not be what they are. he did a great job of finding a niche in the band. his guitar style is original and interesting. his vocals are very 'black licorice' which is part of jerry's defintion of the band anyway. he's perfect. just like all the other members, he cannot be replaced.
as for his rhythm playing, i think the sound of the dead is based around the band interaction; they're all playing different parts that interlock. a band with this many players does not require the rhythm guitarist to strum the chords or hold down the rhythm. the drummers and bassist are doing that, and i love the way bobby fills these little gaps in the song with interesting bursts of cool guitar.
you can really hear bobby well on some tapes, and personally these are most of the favorites in my collection. my fav is early 70's, but i dig the tones he was coming up with in the 90's. the heavy distorted, enveloped tones he would sometimes use on later tunes like picasso moon(i likethe tones not the tune really) seem like they evolved from estimated. he seems to posess a certain mastery over his style and plays comfortably from what i've seen.
i've seen plenty of early ratdog shows with no other guitarist, tho i was hoping henry kaiser would have really joined him at the pignic in 95. have you heard that tape of special k band recorded in japan? weir and kaiser were awesome together i think. i would have much rather seen kaiser in there than jimmy herring. i dont know the story behind that, if any, but seriously man imo henry kaiser kicks ass by taking the music up a notch and jimmy herring is a subpar jerry guitar impersonator.
oh, and about that bg tribute. i only have a tape of the show in gg park after bg died. the energy was hot, and how about those creedence covers?
strumminsix wrote:So you know, my response wasn't defensive nor did I mean to take you out of context. I will always believe that it was the unique combination and random meetings that made the GD what it was and that without everythin lining up the way it did they would never have made it.Of course, no problem.
BTW, we totally agree. I feel LOM was the shining moment for JG in all of his side projects.
jimmy herring is a subpar jerry guitar impersonator.
Ya had me until there. Herring sounds absolutely nothing like Jerry. He doesn't try to and he specifically got the gig because he does not sound like Jerry. He is also far from subpar.
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best.- the girl from the bus
jimmy herring is a subpar jerry guitar impersonator.Yeah, I have to agree with jahozer that Herring is not a Jerry clone and FAR from subpar. Listen to some of the Jazz is Dead stuff he did. His style is incredible and he listens to what others are playing.
"The only funeral you should ever try to interrupt is your own, and that should be a full-time job." -Kinky Friedman