Grateful Dead Music Forum

Hajimemashite!!! wrote:Hey mt is there any reason why frank didn't approve of taping? Am I missing something? It seems like he wouldnt care...

You know, that's a great question. People did in fact stealthily bootleg his shows regularly since the 60s and I believe his main beef was about poor quality and loss of money. Of course it seems reasonable to think if he opened it up (i.e taper section) the quality would've be much better. FWIW, even though he disallowed it, there are a lot of great boots out there. I know at one time he released a multi-record box set called "Beat the Boots" and it was made up of a lot of semi-famous shows that were already bootlegged into LPs. I belive the real answer is simply loss of money...I tried to find a better answer and looked around a bit....All I found worth mentioning is this...

"FZ himself commented in the big 1989 Society Pages interview (http://www.afka.net/Articles/1990-06_Society_Pages.htm) that he was fine with "the grapevine" (i.e. tape trading) as long as no profits were made. However, later in the interview Den Simms tries to sell FZ on the idea of allowing a tapers section at his shows like the Grateful Dead, saying that this has made Dead bootlegs obsolete (except for the clueless), and FZ rejects the idea. More or less a moot point by then anyway."

If you're inetrested in VERY high quality live stuff, one of the last things he did before he died was to put out a 12 CD set called "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore" Vol 1-6
If you have the cash, I highly reccomend it.

I love how sometimes he will end a song with a riff like Sunshine of your Love or throw in a snippet of another like Wipe Out during Joe's Garage....
Its all in the details ....

this is actually the full piece in that interview from 1989...

DEN SIMMS: The one thing that we are all in absolute agreement about, that we want to do differently than what other people have done, between the three of us, we don't like bootleg records. We don't like the idea of what a bootlegging is all about. At the same time, there is a little bit of a ... uh ... I was trying to find a way to describe it ... we have definitely helped out education, as far as understanding your music, by the way of getting cheezy tapes that are done in concerts, and the other things, that are kinda collected and passed around like baseball cards in a little grapevine that exists among your fans.

FRANK ZAPPA: I don't mind the grapevine. What I mind is guys who actually take the stuff, and try to rip me off, and make a profit from it. They're also ripping off the fans, because they're getting sub-standard versions. This is gonna be great!

ERIC BUXTON: We don't deal with people like that. A lot of people, they'll press a vinyl bootleg album ... I go into record stores, and there's stacks of boot "alternatives", they call 'em. That's bullshit, and also, a lot of people who trade tapes will do it where ... you send 'em two or three tapes, and they'll send you back one filled up with material ...

DEN SIMMS: It's what's commonly known as the two-for-one deal. You send 'em two blank tapes, they'll send ya back one with music on it, and essentially, I look at that as being ... it translates into money. It's the same deal.

ERIC BUXTON: Not only is it immoral, it's illegal. That's the unauthorized recording of sound.

FRANK ZAPPA: That's right. No question. It's a violation of two copyrights. It's a violation of the (C) copyright of the compositions. It's a violation of the (P) copyright of the master tape, which I own, of the performance.

DEN SIMMS: And at the same time, certainly from my point of view, I have to admit that I, perhaps, feel a little bit less than pure as the driven snow, because, perhaps having some cassette tapes that were recorded in concert, trading them around, might be, certainly from a lawyer's point of view, breaking some of those copyright regulations, and such, too.

FRANK ZAPPA: Well, look, it depends on what the intent is. If the intent is to rip me off, then I hate it. If the intent is to find out what's going on, then I think it's fabulous. I'm glad that somebody takes an interest in it, and I'm glad they enjoy it, and whatever I do is for other people's enjoyment here, y'know? But just like anybody else, who wants to get ripped off? I'm not interested in bending over. So ... there you have it.

DEN SIMMS: That's great to have you articulate it that way. It's somethin' that I have sort of thought that you probably felt that way, but never heard it articulated that way, so, that's nice that you put it in words.

This was always one of my favorites from Frank. I'd call it a Zappa-rap. It's on You Are What You Is (1981) and is the third song in what I always viewed as the Zappa "trinity". The other 2 songs are Heavenly Bank Account and The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing. Maybe you can guess to whom and what he's referring to...

Whoever we are
Wherever were from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
Its gonna take a lot more
Than tryin to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it the earth
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near n far
Dumb all over,
Black n white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religous fanatics
On the air every night
Sayin the bible
Tells the story
Makes the details
Sound real gory
bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Dont believe in the book
We got over here

You cant run a race
Without no feet
n pretty soon
There wont be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religous fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(I mean it wont blow up
n disappear
Itll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)

You cant run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state

To arms! to arms!
Hooray! thats great
Two legs aint bad
Unless theres a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (get down!)
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey? )
The good book says:
(it gotta be that way!)
But their book says:
Revenge the crusades...
With whips n chains
n hand grenades...
Two arms? two arms?
Have another and another
Our God says:
There aint no other!
Our God says
Its all okay!
Our God says
This is the way!

It says in the book:
Burn n destroy...
n repent, n redeem
n revenge, n deploy
n rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
cause they dont go for whats in the book
n that makes em bad
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice french bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise our god
(cause he can really take care of business!)

And when his humble tv servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our God says
Its okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
cause if we dont do it,
We aint gwine up to hebbin!
(depending on which book youre using at the
Time...cant use theirs... it dont work
...its all lies...gotta use mine...)
Aint that right?
Thats what they say
Every night...
Every day...
Hey, we cant really be dumb
If were just following gods orders
Hey, lets get serious...
God knows what hes doin
He wrote this book here
An the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,
So...
If were dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(an maybe even a little ugly on the side)

This is one of his most enduring tunes. written in 65 and on Freak Out! (first album), he continued playing it til the very end. It's (IMHO) still just as timely as the day it was written.

Well Im about to get sick
From watchin my tv
Been checkin out the news
Till my eyeballs fail to see
I mean to say that every day
Is just another rotten mess
And when its gonna change, my friend
Is anybodys guess, so im
Watchin and Im waitin
Hopin for the best
Even think Ill go to prayin
Every time I hear em sayin
Theres no way to delay
That trouble comin every day
No way to delay the trouble
Comin every day
Wednesday I watched the riot
Seen the cops out on the street
Watched em throwin rocks & stuff & chokin
In the heat
Listen to reports
About the whisky passin round
Seen the smoke & fire
And the market burnin down
Watched while everybody
On his street would take a turn
To stomp & smash & bash & crash & slash &
Bust & burn
And im
Watchin and Im waitin
Hopin for the best
Even think Ill go to prayin
Every time I hear em sayin that theres
No way to delay
That trouble comin every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin every day

The Radiators also do a killer version of this! It's actually a medley that usually goes
Hardcore> Pump It Up> Trouble Every Day> Shake Your Body (Down To The Ground)> Hardcore

http://www.archive.org/details/rads2008 ... -19.flac16

Sean

mttourpro wrote:This is one of his most enduring tunes. written in 65 and on Freak Out! (first album), he continued playing it til the very end. It's (IMHO) still just as timely as the day it was written.

Well Im about to get sick
From watchin my tv
Been checkin out the news
Till my eyeballs fail to see
I mean to say that every day
Is just another rotten mess
And when its gonna change, my friend
Is anybodys guess, so im
Watchin and Im waitin
Hopin for the best
Even think Ill go to prayin
Every time I hear em sayin
Theres no way to delay
That trouble comin every day
No way to delay the trouble
Comin every day
Wednesday I watched the riot
Seen the cops out on the street
Watched em throwin rocks & stuff & chokin
In the heat
Listen to reports
About the whisky passin round
Seen the smoke & fire
And the market burnin down
Watched while everybody
On his street would take a turn
To stomp & smash & bash & crash & slash &
Bust & burn
And im
Watchin and Im waitin
Hopin for the best
Even think Ill go to prayin
Every time I hear em sayin that theres
No way to delay
That trouble comin every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin every day

oops, double post

Another timeless articulation of the plight of the common man...written in 84 (I believe). Might be even more true today than when it was written.

I used to have a job
An I was doin fairly well
Depression came along
An everybody start to yell
Whered they go, them good ol days,
An all that crap we used to sell?
Now Im in hot-plate heaven,
At the green hotel

Republicans is fine,
If youre a multi-millionaire
Democrats is fair,
If all you own is what you wear
Neither of ems really right,
cause neither of em care
bout that hot-plate heaven,
cause they aint been there

They really oughta go
n find out how the hall-way smell --
Theyd benefit to know
bout what the bums in there could tell
(I guess were only dreamin,
But I spose its just as well
Thats all you get to dream
Up in the green hotel)

Nature didnt put me here,
An neither did my fate --
It musta been some evil ol
Republican candidate!
Hes over there in washington,
But I wish he was in hell
cause Im in hot-plate heaven
At the green hotel
Things is slightly better now;
They hope we will forget
The misery of trickle down,
An jelly-bean etiquette
The regal presidential style
Has simply not worn well,
But neither has my rags,
Up in the green hotel

I said the green hotel
I mean the green hotel
Been there once
The green hotel
Were goin again
The green hotel
Neither has my rags,
Up in the green hotel
Hey, pass me the dog-food!

Zappa -

I abosultely love some of his stuff, can't stand others - His more musically oriented/advanced stuff is great, but some of his novelty or satire of whatever albums are just too out there for me - but it has its place. I can't pick one album so - Freak Out!, Hot Rats, Grand Wazoo, Roxy, Sleep Dirt, Chunga's Revenge, Weasels, the 'guitar' albums are all great, many others too though.

To narrow it down do a single song is tough - but (and I'm confused right now) there's a tune on sleep dirt - either spider of destiny or sleep dirt that is incredible. Here's where I'm confused - I don't know if its the version on the album or an outtake, but Frank did this song solo, finger-picked acousitc and it sounds just incredible/indescribable. When I get home later I try and track it down.

As for band members and favorite periods go - I really don't know all that much the bands and how they changed over time other than the major players.

Why is it all the greats leave too early?

The whole album Sleepdirt could be seen as an outtake given that Frank originally wrote a 3 record work called Lather. He was contractually forced to give Warner Bros 3 more records and was in a bitter court battle, etc with them....so, at some point, he decided to hand over the 3 records worth of recoded material (Lather) with no artwork or names (I believe). Those "albums" became Sleepdirt, Studio Tan and Orchestral Favorites, and, somehow I think WakaJawaka might have also been involved with this....anyhoo, apparently, Warner Bros made up the all the names and did the artwork on them without any further input from FZ.
To purposely piss them off, FZ went on a radio show and played all the material after encouraging people to record it off the radio. Right before he died, he remastered the whole piece (Lather) which is presently available as a 3CD set with nice liner notes written by Zappa.
I think the tunes on Lather are the original versions and that some of the tunes on the other albums were perhaps edited by warner bros. I think the tune you mentioned is Spider of Destiny----an instrumental guitar piece that ends with the guitar player saying "my fingers got stuck".

Given what you said you liked, I'd reccomend checking out Apostrophe, Overnight Sensation and One Size fits All.

BTW, Tarkus is easily my favorite ELP album.