[Erictw83]

"The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music." -- George Carlin

Amen to that

[tigerstrat]

Religion and God are two completely different things:

The former would like you to believe that you need it as a go-between to communicate with the latter.

[b weird]

I don't know maybe Jerry was a Christian. With as many God/Jesus/Christian songs as he did it's hard to think different. Maybe in ,78 or so he was converted. I guess we'll never know. But also Jerry didn't write the songs Gommorah, Palm Sunday and the like it was Robert Hunter. I would imagine Jerry wouldn't have done them if he didn't like them but who knows. Cats Under The Stars was sort of thrown together maybe there wasn't a lot to work with.

[ker1227]

We have to survive. The band has to be able to play to at least the turn of the millennium."

:( Almost made it jer

[gratephulphish123]

well on jerry album with all the religious references was he writing lyrics, i didn tknow he did that any time after the golden road, maybe hunter was going through a religious phase, though i havent heard anything about him being particularly religious either

[gratephulphish123]

I don't know maybe Jerry was a Christian. With as many God/Jesus/Christian songs as he did it's hard to think different. Maybe in ,78 or so he was converted. I guess we'll never know. But also Jerry didn't write the songs Gommorah, Palm Sunday and the like it was Robert Hunter. I would imagine Jerry wouldn't have done them if he didn't like them but who knows. Cats Under The Stars was sort of thrown together maybe there wasn't a lot to work with.

d'oh should've looked at the rest of the posts

[ebick]

Religion and God are two completely different things:

The former would like you to believe that you need it as a go-between to communicate with the latter.

Very well stated Tigerstrat.

[confusions_prince]

well on jerry album with all the religious references was he writing lyrics, i didn tknow he did that any time after the golden road, maybe hunter was going through a religious phase, though i havent heard anything about him being particularly religious either

Hunter and Garcia seem to me to be spiritual rather than religious. It is safe to say that hunter never was religious. Both were in for the vision quest... Joyce heads for a time... That Joseph Campbell is a trip, too.

I've seen McKenna's Novelty Theory mentioned, too. Does anyone know enough about higher math to make head or tail of the nonsense on this Web page? There are formulas but no way to link them all together.
http://www.levity.com/eschaton/sheliak/index.html

The McKenna/Hunter discussions on DMT are probably the best resource for what Hunter thinks about eternity and time, etc. In there you'll find one of my favorite quotes: "The secret cannot be told of course, or I would have told it. But it is something like: We are all gods, with the knowledge of gods, we are all omniscient, except for the fact that we are so damn stupid."

Of course, that IS the secret. The non-duality of everything. We have that divine spark and we create the world and ourselves, but, you know, we are just stupid animals. It doesn't really matter.

[d-v-s]

Excellent discussion. So many places to go off topic, but I'll refrain and try to stay on the topic at hand.

I agree that Gomorrah and Palm Sunday were Hunter written songs, but what about the below songs:

Samson & Delila
Magnificent Sanctuary Band
I'll be with thee
Mighty High
I bid you good night

They are all cover songs, and as stated somewhere in the topic, I don't think that the band would have agreed to play them if they weren't on some level comfortable with the message of the songs.

I thought Shaggy had some very good points on this:
1. he could quote from the bible, and knew a lot on the subject
2. he wouldn't have ruled out christianity as a path
3. he was a devout individualist, so he wouldn't conform with the strict rules of a religion

I think it's safe to say that Jerry wasn't a die-hard Christian, but I agree with the comments made above, in that he was a very wise person and probably would not have ruled out christianity as a path. He was definitely a man of faith and spirituality, and as such he would have realized that all the road signs along the path to enlightenment are worth reading and exploring. For each cup of BS in religion there's a drop of truth.

Now for a couple of off-topic notes:
TS - I don't agree that religion and God are 2 completely different things, however, I fully agree with your second statement. I think that some people need religion to find God, while others can simply find It on their own.

jck-strw - great Carlin quote!

[confusions_prince]

2. he wouldn't have ruled out christianity as a path
3. he was a devout individualist, so he wouldn't conform with the strict rules of a religion

he would have realized that all the road signs along the path to enlightenment are worth reading and exploring. For each cup of BS in religion there's a drop of truth.

Well, religion at its best is the set of symbols we can use to understand the deep unreal. Most people get too caught up in a particular set of symbols or even symbolism itself.

[Grinner]

Hunter and Garcia seem to me to be spiritual rather than religious. It is safe to say that hunter never was religious. Both were in for the vision quest...

I think its important to realize the distinction here between spirituality/religion. For me religion is an organized, fallible human construction (though not without its benefits); whereas spirituality is more of an inherent understanding of a greater power. (Thoughts?)

I think its obvious in Hunter's case that he recognized said higher power, look at Ripple or Attics for example. And I guess I'll repeat what others have said: Jerry saw something in those songs that drew him to sing and play them.

Above all: "If you get confused, listen to the music play":peas:

[cloudhands]

Lovely Hunter quote. Does anyone know more about the interview with Jerry, Joseph Campbell, and Mickey? I've only read about it in Jay Blakesberg's "Between the Dark and the Light" but never found any record of what was said. I think Blakesberg says it turned into the "Joe and Jerry show." That sounds like a conversation I'd like to hear. I'm looking through "the Power of Myth," where i seem to remember Campbell mentioning going to a Dead show, but no luck so far. i could be mistaken, my memory tends to play with creations of its own sometimes.

instead I found this from Campbell on drugs: "..the whole problem with the difference between the mystical experience and the psychological crack-up. The difference is that the one who cracks up is drowning in the water in which the mystic swims. You have to be prepared for the experience."

Campbell sees myths, and religion at its best, as preparing us for conciousness-transformation. "It is a terrifying experience to have your conciousness transformed," he says, and some days I've agreed with him. The religious/mythic elements in Jerry and the band's music and lyrics often take on this role perhaps not guides but companions in the experience of conciousness-transformation...You're right up against it, and so are they "Like Jehovah's favorite choir," or whomever/whatever/wherever. Its so cool how music runs along the very edge of Time.
you know. you've been there.
jerry---man of little faith? doesn't seem right to me.
you think about it, going down the road, seeing a cross or fish on one car, a steal-your-face on another...
so many roads to ease my soul...
hunter still said it best.

[strumminsix]

I think its important to realize the distinction here between spirituality/religion. For me religion is an organized, fallible human construction (though not without its benefits); whereas spirituality is more of an inherent understanding of a greater power. (Thoughts?)

I see faith and religion going hand in hand.

Being from a Christian Orthodox religion my statements come from my experience. In the church I attend the priests, bishops and all other leaders freely admit fallibility and there is no leader nor imposed rules to the benefit of the church. The goal of my church is to facilitate the faithful on their journey.

From a Judea-Christian perspective the word of God was handed down to the people in the Old Testament with prophets then witnesses and disciples in the New Testament.

Alot of material for someone one to absorb without guidance.

Having faith alone, IMO, stops short of what can be accomplished if desired. For some faith is enough, but others need more.

In my mind I can liken it to this site to some degree. We can all develop ourselves to a certain degree on our own but with the help of others we can develop ourselves to a greater level.

[confusions_prince]

Welcome, cloudhands! I love finding others who enjoy/have the capacity for Campbell! The lecture with the Dead was from 1986 was called From Ritual to Rapture. I, too, would like to learn more if possible. I remember hearing something about Campbell calling the Dead (paraphrasing) a peak experience.

In _Mythic Worlds, Modern Words_ (Campbell on Joyce) I've found textual evidence that Campbell has tried LSD, though it is somewhat flimsy.

"Spirit into Sound" is what it's about: the experience.

EDIT: used The Google and came up with a great site on Campbell and the Dead: http://www.sirbacon.org/joseph_campbell.htm

"The Deadheads are doing the dance of life and this I would say, is the answer to the atom bomb." -JC

[pfarrell615]

most catholics on acid become KIND to a fault on the eighth day GOD created Phil!!!