Grateful Dead Music Forum

8-6-71 for me wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:01 pm Any tips for getting pinch harmonics (Loser solos) using the Adamas picks?

8-6-71 for me wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:53 am Any Strat > GGG stratoblaster circuit in a pedal > any fender tube amp w reverb

E72

lbpesq wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:01 pm Wow! I hold my pick like Jerry, and I didn't even know it!

Bill, tgo

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:48 am Best thing I've experienced: a simple recording device!

Folks spends so much time in the gear they miss the simples:

Ears + Eyes: really listen to Jerry. Watch videos. Record your playing. Listen side by side!

Find some Jerry isolated! Listen to where Jerry leaves room for Bobby! And how he plays off Bobby and keyboard accompaniment.

Most folks here post clips with nice tone and chops, but are way fatter than JG's isolated, miss the cutting edge, omit the JG rhythm beauty of just a few notes, often much more simple than what folks think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHiqby0Zjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ-UrWtRHzg

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:06 pm

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:48 am Best thing I've experienced: a simple recording device!

Folks spends so much time in the gear they miss the simples:

Ears + Eyes: really listen to Jerry. Watch videos. Record your playing. Listen side by side!

Find some Jerry isolated! Listen to where Jerry leaves room for Bobby! And how he plays off Bobby and keyboard accompaniment.

Most folks here post clips with nice tone and chops, but are way fatter than JG's isolated, miss the cutting edge, omit the JG rhythm beauty of just a few notes, often much more simple than what folks think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHiqby0Zjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ-UrWtRHzg

You are right about Jerry keeping things simple..he was very strung out a lot of the time and wasn’t exactly “on point” like other guitar players in that regard. Bobby was doing more than people realize, especially in songs like Eyes of the World and many others.
When playing with a monster bass player and TWO drummers, not to mention Bobby and whom ever was filling in the rhythm on keys, he had to cut through the mix, so he was using ear piercing levels of treble in his tone. I find this tone achievable but somewhat unbearable on my my ears when playing at home to a simple loop track.
It just doesn’t sound good without a whole band. I don’t understand how these guys kept their hearing ... are they using ear plugs? Love the wall of sound but seems like a recipe for perpetual tinnitus.
How did these guys do it ... and how do they keep doing it without losing their hearing lol?

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:48 am Best thing I've experienced: a simple recording device!

Folks spends so much time in the gear they miss the simples:

Ears + Eyes: really listen to Jerry. Watch videos. Record your playing. Listen side by side!

Find some Jerry isolated! Listen to where Jerry leaves room for Bobby! And how he plays off Bobby and keyboard accompaniment.

Most folks here post clips with nice tone and chops, but are way fatter than JG's isolated, miss the cutting edge, omit the JG rhythm beauty of just a few notes, often much more simple than what folks think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHiqby0Zjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ-UrWtRHzg

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:47 pm
AMEN to your whole post. You nailed it. Guys don't do it at home cuz it kinda sounds like shit until you have the full band: 2 drummers, lead bass, crazy rhythm guitarist, and passionate keys. Then it cuts through, dances on top, sounds like sparkles. Vs at home it sounds shrill.

lbpesq wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 pm

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:47 pm
Some of my favorite shows were in '73-'74 when Mickey had left the band following his dad ripping them off and they played with just one drummer.

Bill, tgo

I could be wrong but I believe Mickey was also absent from the ‘72 European Tour, thus I don’t believe he played on the Europe ‘72 records - Jerry’s tone on these record seems a bit warmer and fuller to my ear

8-6-71 for me wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:32 pm

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:48 am Best thing I've experienced: a simple recording device!

Folks spends so much time in the gear they miss the simples:

Ears + Eyes: really listen to Jerry. Watch videos. Record your playing. Listen side by side!

Find some Jerry isolated! Listen to where Jerry leaves room for Bobby! And how he plays off Bobby and keyboard accompaniment.

Most folks here post clips with nice tone and chops, but are way fatter than JG's isolated, miss the cutting edge, omit the JG rhythm beauty of just a few notes, often much more simple than what folks think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHiqby0Zjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ-UrWtRHzg

(in the same spirit ) best thing I've experienced... transcribe!

https://www.seventhstring.com/xscribe/overview.html

import any recording; isolate, loop, slow down, make your own sheet music
hear every nuance > play every nuance

Wish there was a deadicated user group for transcribe!

lbpesq wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 pm

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:47 pm
AMEN to your whole post. You nailed it. Guys don't do it at home cuz it kinda sounds like shit until you have the full band: 2 drummers, lead bass, crazy rhythm guitarist, and passionate keys. Then it cuts through, dances on top, sounds like sparkles. Vs at home it sounds shrill.

Some of my favorite shows were in '73-'74 when Mickey had left the band following his dad ripping them off and they played with just one drummer.

Bill, tgo

strumminsix wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:51 am

lbpesq wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 pm

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:47 pm
AMEN to your whole post. You nailed it. Guys don't do it at home cuz it kinda sounds like shit until you have the full band: 2 drummers, lead bass, crazy rhythm guitarist, and passionate keys. Then it cuts through, dances on top, sounds like sparkles. Vs at home it sounds shrill.

Some of my favorite shows were in '73-'74 when Mickey had left the band following his dad ripping them off and they played with just one drummer.

Bill, tgo

A great opportunities for us guitarists to listen to those years:
1) not so much happening upstage with only 1 drummer
2) many shows had hard panning of guitarists

Even coming into 76 when Hart rejoined he was less is more. Think 77 being lauded as great is cuz Mickey found that perfect amount to add to Billy. Then the 80s came and it felt like a massive singularity of 2 drummers playing off each other more and the pulse of their output serving the song. I'm sure it's sacrilege to many, but think it was too damn busy back there too often and missed hearing that beautiful simplicity of a kick+hi-hat+snare.

strumminsix wrote:

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:06 pm

strumminsix wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:48 am Best thing I've experienced: a simple recording device!

Folks spends so much time in the gear they miss the simples:

Ears + Eyes: really listen to Jerry. Watch videos. Record your playing. Listen side by side!

Find some Jerry isolated! Listen to where Jerry leaves room for Bobby! And how he plays off Bobby and keyboard accompaniment.

Most folks here post clips with nice tone and chops, but are way fatter than JG's isolated, miss the cutting edge, omit the JG rhythm beauty of just a few notes, often much more simple than what folks think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHiqby0Zjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ-UrWtRHzg

You are right about Jerry keeping things simple..he was very strung out a lot of the time and wasn’t exactly “on point” like other guitar players in that regard. Bobby was doing more than people realize, especially in songs like Eyes of the World and many others.
When playing with a monster bass player and TWO drummers, not to mention Bobby and whom ever was filling in the rhythm on keys, he had to cut through the mix, so he was using ear piercing levels of treble in his tone. I find this tone achievable but somewhat unbearable on my my ears when playing at home to a simple loop track.
It just doesn’t sound good without a whole band. I don’t understand how these guys kept their hearing ... are they using ear plugs? Love the wall of sound but seems like a recipe for perpetual tinnitus.
How did these guys do it ... and how do they keep doing it without losing their hearing lol?

AMEN to your whole post. You nailed it. Guys don't do it at home cuz it kinda sounds like shit until you have the full band: 2 drummers, lead bass, crazy rhythm guitarist, and passionate keys. Then it cuts through, dances on top, sounds like sparkles. Vs at home it sounds shrill.

And rumor has it, Wil, that Bobby's hearing has been shot since since the 60s. In an interview he talked about being somewhere big (woodstock?) and hung out in front of the speakers as a fan one day and did perm damage. And as the years grew on more hearing loss hence his brighter and glassier tone. Then Brent comes along and he had to fight into the mix even harder while Healy buried his guitar more......

PurpleTrails wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:16 am

strumminsix wrote:

wpmartin1979 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:06 pm
You are right about Jerry keeping things simple..he was very strung out a lot of the time and wasn’t exactly “on point” like other guitar players in that regard. Bobby was doing more than people realize, especially in songs like Eyes of the World and many others.
When playing with a monster bass player and TWO drummers, not to mention Bobby and whom ever was filling in the rhythm on keys, he had to cut through the mix, so he was using ear piercing levels of treble in his tone. I find this tone achievable but somewhat unbearable on my my ears when playing at home to a simple loop track.
It just doesn’t sound good without a whole band. I don’t understand how these guys kept their hearing ... are they using ear plugs? Love the wall of sound but seems like a recipe for perpetual tinnitus.
How did these guys do it ... and how do they keep doing it without losing their hearing lol?

AMEN to your whole post. You nailed it. Guys don't do it at home cuz it kinda sounds like shit until you have the full band: 2 drummers, lead bass, crazy rhythm guitarist, and passionate keys. Then it cuts through, dances on top, sounds like sparkles. Vs at home it sounds shrill.

And rumor has it, Wil, that Bobby's hearing has been shot since since the 60s. In an interview he talked about being somewhere big (woodstock?) and hung out in front of the speakers as a fan one day and did perm damage. And as the years grew on more hearing loss hence his brighter and glassier tone. Then Brent comes along and he had to fight into the mix even harder while Healy buried his guitar more......

My understanding is that Mickey is quite deaf as well. I also read somewhere that the current amp and monitor setup being used by dead & co is relatively quiet on stage. There's certainly acoustic blocking between the drummers and front of stage guys that you can see on some of the closeup video shots. I assume that is to help protect what is left of the guys' hearing.