Grateful Dead Music Forum

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:The DOD and MXR were never even close for me. Way off. DOD is great for Radiohead weirdness though. I could never make friends with the MXR.

The Ibanez/Maxon was surprisingly close the times I dabbled. I believe that it's also optical like the MuTron. It may be a real contender.


The Emma Discombobulator wasn't bad either. Didn't nail it, but pretty close.


Brad

Amen. I went into a store in Portland and tried maybe 6 at one time, this all aside from my other numerous previous attempts to get that sound with other pedals, and the maxon was the last one i demo'd. It nailed it. Very obvious difference in tone, if its because its optical, then that is cool. Left fader max all the way up and right fader all almost all the way down for shake down etc. Ill make a demo

The DOD uses the same optical vactrol as the Mutron, just one instead of two.

The Envelope Filter. My white whale. I've used the following trying to get close:

Old style QTron+
Pro: Sounds perfect!
Con: Constantly broken

Ibanez AF9
Pro: Up sounds good
Con: Could never get down to sound right. Decay wasn't long enough in the up position.

MusicPCB MeatSphere
I made a video!

Pro: Can get both up and down perfectly.
Con: Takes forever to dial in, can be finicky on some settings.

MadBean Kraken
Pro: Up can sometimes sound right.
Con: This is clearly not the right pedal for the job.

MadBean Nautilus
Pro: Can do a very good up and down, always works.
Con: Doesn't seem to have that same "growl" that the Qtron had.

Regarding the Source Audio Soundblox, I noticed a familiar tune when I was watching a demo...
https://youtu.be/e-myQUjGL34?t=185

For those with buffer/ OBEL does it get better?

aiq wrote:For those with buffer/ OBEL does it get better?

It gets easier. The tone won't change drastically (assuming you've set the filter with the guitar volume on 10), but you'll now be able to affect dynamics with your volume pot.

aiq wrote:For those with buffer/ OBEL does it get better?

I have an original MuTron and a TruTron. They both nail it

Even with those, it's a lot harder to get "that" sound without the OBEL/buffer. I have a very hard time getting what I'm after with my "normal" guitars. The OBEL/buffer really helps push the envelope filter open.

Ok, thanks.

I got a Maxon AF-9 and I could not get anything out of it. Maybe it was bad. Absolutely no LP sweep at all. I really wanted it to work out. I need a smaller footprint EF.

I really liked my q-tron, and I really like my new tru-tron. Neither of them are perfect all the time, but as I grow more accustomed--especially to the tru-tron--I find that it makes some Jerry-tron sounds exactly perfectly.

For the "Estimated/Shakedown" quack, I use my bridge pup (singl coil). For "tron-soloing" I use the middle or neck pups (humbucker) depending. Also, rolling the tone off just a bit has an effect on the quack as well...

It's all in the ballpark, not all perfect, but very very good.

JustinJohn wrote:I really liked my q-tron, and I really like my new tru-tron. Neither of them are perfect all the time, but as I grow more accustomed--especially to the tru-tron--I find that it makes some Jerry-tron sounds exactly perfectly.

For the "Estimated/Shakedown" quack, I use my bridge pup (singl coil). For "tron-soloing" I use the middle or neck pups (humbucker) depending. Also, rolling the tone off just a bit has an effect on the quack as well...

It's all in the ballpark, not all perfect, but very very good.

I have a Qtron Micro and I do exactly the same as you have mentioned and it comes pretty close to what I deem a good quacking Envelope Filter tone. I have the sweet spot for getting a respectable Jerry mutron tone (Shakedown, Fire, Estimated, Ramble On etc..) is bridge pickup single coil on USA Strat. Playing with the tone knobs are crucial to honing in on the tone as well.

I just changed amps radically as well from a Roland Cube to a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. Game changer where even after a month I am working to relearn what good tone really means at every level including comfort zone on pedals. I have had to dial off the main volume at times on the amp to keep it from barking too distorted but basically the amp is giving out a lot fatter tone with a hell of a lot more power.

Put the board together today for a dry run before permanant lock down.

First time running the pedals thru the Jerrybird with OBEL/Wald buffer. Pedals really work better in a dramatic way. Such an improvement to have the pedal activated and flip that little switch when needed, so much better than tap dancing on the pedal board.

The MXR is in the chain, sounds great actually. I will try the Hartman in that loop but MXR is simple, small and sounds very good.

Edit: used the 67 Vibrolux for the test drive, split middle.

For what it's worth, not all original MuTrons were good. I've owned 5 or so. Back in the late '80s I found them typically for $40 or $50 each. At one point I had 4 of them. 2 of them sounded really awful, never could do the Jerry thing so I sold them. 1 of them was ok and one was great. That great one is still being used 3 days a week by a local Dead band player here in St. Louis - Dave Casper in Jakes Leg. I feel sorry for people who buy an original for a lot of money and without ever test driving it to make sure it sounds good. Statistically speaking, I'd say the odds are agains you when purchasing an original. You may get an ok one, but not likely a great one.

I don't know if it was the opto element that varied so much or maybe the variances in the resistor and capacitor values. Funny though, while a good MuTron III is the best, many are not that great and are easily beat out by a Q-Tron or Mini Q-Tron and I'm sure the new Tru-Tron is far more consistent than the old originals. If I were shopping today, I'd go for the Tru-Tron.

I sure would love to get my hands on Jerry's favorite one and reverse-engineer it, take down every value and test the opto device for it's curves. Then that could be cloned and repeated over and over.... That would be cool...

Brad

Oh, and the buffer factor is vital in my opinion. They just don't respond well without good guitar buffering. They can too easily OVER-trigger with bassy content and under-trigger in the higher registers. The buffering makes all the difference, makes the thinner high notes trigger nicely. And if you don't have the OBEL, you obviously need to keep the guitar on 10 the whole time and then use a volume pedal after the Mutron to control loudness.

The MuTron's need for a full-on signal from the guitar was clearly brought about the birth of the OBEL.

B

Funny I missed this thread and just posted impression of the neutrino on a similar but older thread. Once I found the internal trim pot the neutrino has worked out well. I have had the EMMA, the Tru-tron, various others. I really have to say if you want something that covers the EF plus any other mod effect you can think of check out the Strymon Mobius. I think the EF program in it is as good as and probably better sounding than any. Very musical. Plus once you dial it in you don't have to worry about your knobs getting twisted on the way to the gig etc. The rating speaker, phaser, slow gear, chorus, vibe etc programs in the Strymon are really great as well so you get one box that does lots of cool stuff.

I have an EHX Tube Zipper and I adore it. I took a while to dial it into the right tone, because you have a LOT of control over various parameters of the effect, including input gain into the tube circuit. Once I dialed it in it sounds just like Garcias Mutron and of a very hight fidelity. Plus it can be used for a ton of other sounds- including distortion/OD.

Here's a link http://www.ehx.com/products/tube-zipper