Grateful Dead Music Forum

I can say from experience that the graphite pick helps a little (like maybe 10%), but is not the "key" ingredient.

Lephty wrote:So I guess this question would be directed to SMS--are you saying that the onboard preamp is NOT a factor at all? Or just a less important factor? Or do you consider it important too?

If you re-read what I posted, my 2nd point right after "fresh strings" was the "onboard buffer"... You may be calling it a "onboard preamp" but since it's unity gain, I refer to it as a buffer.

And yes, the buffer is absolutely part of the equation.

And I also agree about the graphite pick as well. I should have included that in my list.


B

Like Brad says, it's the total of all the above mentioned ingredients.
Great discussion and information here: forum/viewtopic.php?f=419&t=16032&hilit ... ngredients

Room for the strings to oscillate helps a great extent. I raise my action to the limit before it becomes detrimental to the intonation.

You can get Jerry "Thwap & Spank" with the strings mushed onto the frets.

All other points play into it as well.

If you re-read what I posted, my 2nd point right after "fresh strings" was the "onboard buffer"... You may be calling it a "onboard preamp" but since it's unity gain, I refer to it as a buffer.

And yes, the buffer is absolutely part of the equation.

And I also agree about the graphite pick as well. I should have included that in my list.

B

Gotcha, was not aware they were the same thing. So for my next dumb question: if I have an active pickup (IOW, have to stick a 9-volt in the back of the guitar), is that the same thing as an onboard buffer/preamp?

Really appreciating all the help there is to be had on this forum, BTW.

The link provided by HippieGuy is excellent reading on this subject.

mgbills wrote:Room for the strings to oscillate helps a great extent. I raise my action to the limit before it becomes detrimental to the intonation.

You can get Jerry "Thwap & Spank" with the strings mushed onto the frets.

All other points play into it as well.

+1 Excellent point!

Lephty wrote:

If you re-read what I posted, my 2nd point right after "fresh strings" was the "onboard buffer"... You may be calling it a "onboard preamp" but since it's unity gain, I refer to it as a buffer.

And yes, the buffer is absolutely part of the equation.

And I also agree about the graphite pick as well. I should have included that in my list.

B

Gotcha, was not aware they were the same thing. So for my next dumb question: if I have an active pickup (IOW, have to stick a 9-volt in the back of the guitar), is that the same thing as an onboard buffer/preamp?

Really appreciating all the help there is to be had on this forum, BTW.

Yes, it is a preamp/buffer and you will benefit from it to the extent that the output is low impedance and your tone will not degrade over long cable lengths, but the active style pickups are not going to sound the same as passive with the correct preamp/buffer circuit, due to the difference in the construction of the pickups as well as the fine details involved in different preamp/buffer circuits.

hippieguy1954 wrote:Like Brad says, it's the total of all the above mentioned ingredients.
Great discussion and information here: forum/viewtopic.php?f=419&t=16032&hilit ... ngredients

barefootdave wrote:The link provided by HippieGuy is excellent reading on this subject.

Yea, barefootdave, that search feature is awesome

Lephty wrote:This, to me, has always been the most difficult aspect of Garcia's tone to capture. I do have ONE guitar that can do it, a Music Man, but I've never really understood why--and lo and behold it does have an active pickup system (IOW, it uses a 9 volt battery, installed in the back of the guitar). Perhaps that's the magic ingredient!

So I hate to put my ignorance fully on display here, but is this the same thing as an onboard preamp?

And if anyone has any suggestions for posts or other resources that might clue me in a little further about this topic, please let me know.

Thanks much.

What model/year is the guitar?

One must adopt a systems approach to Jerry's tone. We here have all learned this through many trials and tribulations. Each ingredient is crucial to the whole!

Chicken parm is only chicken parm because you have:

A. Marinara sauce
B. pasta
C. Chicken (slathered in an egg batter)
D. Parmesan cheese
E. bread crumbs

And, maye more, but you get the idea. You need allof it, to make up the dish/tone.

Funny thing about string action…

Recently I was in Emerald City Guitars in Seattle, WA. The owner (Jay Boone) is the Neo-Gruhn of the PNW. I love the guy. He always has a melange of Blackface Fenders. He sold two LP's at nearly $300k each during the recession. Saw a '24 Lloyd Loar mando in there a year ago. He told me he'd been courting the owner for years. It had been there a week, and he expected it to last 2 more days ($240K). Not a huge acoustic shop. More of a place for rock starts to stop. I was in there 3 weeks ago playing a '68 Princeton Reverb with a K110, and a '67 Vibrolux. Dylan was at the Paramount theater, and his tech and band were leaving as I was walking in. Small place. His son (name unknown) was talking about the Metallica guy stopping by and buying $40K in guitars to donate to charity. (I'm getting to my point, honest!) With the Princeton I was playing Strat #45. Yea. #45.

But most guitars anywhere (even there) are setup low now. I've been playing a Jerry-Strat for years now. You simply can't spank low action. And you don't even want to try on Strat #45…even if you're playing a '67 Vibrolux with NOS tubes.

The more I think about it…the more I think it's not up there with the JBL, or the clean preamp …but it's up there with Garlic in the parmesan. And maybe the Mc is the breading floating in the red sauce.

My guitar is a Music Man Silhouette Special.

hippieguy1954 wrote:
What model/year is the guitar?

It's a Music Man Silhouette Special. Can't remember the year for sure--maybe '92. Love the guitar.

hippieguy1954 wrote:

hippieguy1954 wrote:Like Brad says, it's the total of all the above mentioned ingredients.
Great discussion and information here: forum/viewtopic.php?f=419&t=16032&hilit ... ngredients

barefootdave wrote:The link provided by HippieGuy is excellent reading on this subject.

Yea, barefootdave, that search feature is awesome

All true, but the title of the original post is "crispy lows," not "Jerry's tone." For me personally, it's not so much about getting Jerry's tone per se--it's more about getting those bass lines to really pop, such as you see in Touch Of Grey, Althea,etc. Out of the many threads on this board about Jerry's tone broadly (including the one linked here), I couldn't find much that addressed this particular aspect of it. I think this thread could be a valuable addition to the conversation, so thanks to everyone who's chiming in!

Lephty wrote:My guitar is a Music Man Silhouette Special.

hippieguy1954 wrote:
What model/year is the guitar?

It's a Music Man Silhouette Special. Can't remember the year for sure--maybe '92. Love the guitar.

hippieguy1954 wrote:

hippieguy1954 wrote:Like Brad says, it's the total of all the above mentioned ingredients.
Great discussion and information here: forum/viewtopic.php?f=419&t=16032&hilit ... ngredients

barefootdave wrote:The link provided by HippieGuy is excellent reading on this subject.

Yea, barefootdave, that search feature is awesome

All true, but the title of the original post is "crispy lows," not "Jerry's tone." For me personally, it's not so much about getting Jerry's tone per se--it's more about getting those bass lines to really pop, such as you see in Touch Of Grey, Althea,etc. Out of the many threads on this board about Jerry's tone broadly (including the one linked here), I couldn't find much that addressed this particular aspect of it. I think this thread could be a valuable addition to the conversation, so thanks to everyone who's chiming in!

Well, you and the op posted about "crispy lows" in the "Jerry Tone" section of the Grateful Dead music forum. I assumed you were speaking of Jerry tone. Those crispy lows in Touch of Grey and Althea you mention are pure Jerry tone.

Those Music Man Silhouette Specials are very nice guitars. Very similar to a Stratocaster. That is why you can hear Jerry tone from it. It has been said many times in this forum that you can get very close with a Strat and a Twin with a JBL E, K or D 120 speaker. The rest is icing on the cake.


A quick google search and I found this: "Both of the Music Man Silhouette Special pickup arrangements include an active noise cancellation circuit". So, there ya go. That is what your battery is for.
http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/stratoc ... ecial.html

I myself own and enjoy one or multiples of every "ingredient of the sauce" mentioned so far. I still say *start* with the easy and free or cheap ones. But that's up to you.

hippieguy1954 wrote: A quick google search and I found this: "Both of the Music Man Silhouette Special pickup arrangements include an active noise cancellation circuit". So, there ya go. That is what your battery is for.
http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/stratoc ... ecial.html

So then do I understand that this is different from an onboard buffer/preamp?
(Sorry...as you can see, I don't know jack about this stuff).