[milobender]

Yes, where the body goes thru the hole...

I don't know about your switch wiring. If you have a schematic that would help. Otherwise, if you have an ohm meter, you can see if one of the lugs has continuity with the switch body.

[tnt1234]

Yes, where the body goes thru the hole...

I don't know about your switch wiring. If you have a schematic that would help. Otherwise, if you have an ohm meter, you can see if one of the lugs has continuity with the switch body.

Great. Will do and thanks.

I have a feeling that it will work because the switch shaft probably comes in contact with the position poles, kind of like a volume or tone pot, but will check it out. Alternatively, I guess I could ground to the screws that would have contacted the shielding....

And on my OBEL mini toggle which is ungrounded as well, I guess that unused middle tab should work, because the mini toggles that are serving as coil splits run to ground from that lug and are grounded. (I don't think I mentioned, I have a similar hum at that toggle as well....)

OK, awesome, so I have a plan for this evening....two more wires to the volume pot and we'll see what happens. Will definitely use that wire bus next time.

[TI4-1009]

i think I do see a ground from your switch to your bus.

? Seven wires to switch.

Three pickup wires in (two red, one small black) on the right, three out to tone pots via caps on the left, one blue signal out to buffer. But the switch body is connected to the shielded cavity.

[milobender]

But the switch body is connected to the shielded cavity.

It's not shielded...

I have a feeling that it will work because the switch shaft probably comes in contact with the position poles, kind of like a volume or tone pot, but will check it out. Alternatively, I guess I could ground to the screws that would have contacted the shielding....

The switch shaft definately does not come in contact with the position poles (with the possible exception of one, but really, that is not likely)... you should study some basic electronics... you can ground the mounting screws.

And on my OBEL mini toggle which is ungrounded as well, I guess that unused middle tab should work, because the mini toggles that are serving as coil splits run to ground from that lug and are grounded. (I don't think I mentioned, I have a similar hum at that toggle as well....)

Again, you need to learn how to read a schematic and see how switches actually work... the middle tab of the switch will definitely not work... there is no lug on a mini toggle switch that is connected to the body.

[hippieguy1954]

Don't know if you have this.

[TI4-1009]

I don't think Any of my switches are grounded? I'm trying to think of the wiring for a strat 5-way or a Gibson 3-way, they're both just wired "signal in-signal out", no ground- right? Unless they get grounded by contacting the shielding- if there's shielding, which there's not on stock Fenders or Gibsons.

Wolf had that pull-down resistor from the switch to ground to prevent popping (Blaster related?), Tiger didn't.

Rethinking this without access to any of my Gibsons or Fenders (I'm at work too )

On the Gibson 3-way I think there is a ground, on the Fender 5-way I don't think there is. No ground on my Tiger 5-way, yes ground on my Wolfish "FreeWay" switch.

But if you don't have any hum with the OBEL on, it's still going through the same switch either way so that should rule the switch ground out. At least a "normal" switch?

[tnt1234]

i think I do see a ground from your switch to your bus.

? Seven wires to switch.

Three pickup wires in (two red, one small black) on the right, three out to tone pots via caps on the left, one blue signal out to buffer. But the switch body is connected to the shielded cavity.

My bad - saw a black wire crossing over your bus and thought it stopped there - but it is a pup wire.

Yes, I suppose your switch is grounded tot he shielded cavity.

[tnt1234]

But the switch body is connected to the shielded cavity.

It's not shielded...

I have a feeling that it will work because the switch shaft probably comes in contact with the position poles, kind of like a volume or tone pot, but will check it out. Alternatively, I guess I could ground to the screws that would have contacted the shielding....

The switch shaft definately does not come in contact with the position poles (with the possible exception of one, but really, that is not likely)... you should study some basic electronics... you can ground the mounting screws.

And on my OBEL mini toggle which is ungrounded as well, I guess that unused middle tab should work, because the mini toggles that are serving as coil splits run to ground from that lug and are grounded. (I don't think I mentioned, I have a similar hum at that toggle as well....)

Again, you need to learn how to read a schematic and see how switches actually work... the middle tab of the switch will definitely not work... there is no lug on a mini toggle switch that is connected to the body.

Hm. Re: the rotary switch, I was reacting to seeing a few diagrams like this:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wi ... =prs_mod_1

Where it looks to me like they are grounding the switch off a lug. There was another diagram which I can't find now, that had an output lug on an unused wafer sent to ground. But it won't take much to just try it both ways tonight.

re: the mini-toggles, the hum isn't happening with the mini-toggles that are coil splitting, which of course are sent to ground off a lug, which is why I thought that might work.


This help is fantastic - which I had the guitar with me so I could be more responsive....thanks!

[tatittle]

[quote="TI4-1009"]I don't think Any of my switches are grounded? I'm trying to think of the wiring for a strat 5-way or a Gibson 3-way, they're both just wired "signal in-signal out", no ground- right? Unless they get grounded by contacting the shielding- if there's shielding, which there's not on stock Fenders or Gibsons.

First a disclaimer: I have no professional training and information I share should not be relied upon in staying safe from harmful/fatal electrical shocks!!!

"signal out" is ground practically speaking. The larger spade on AC plugs is the "ground', the 3rd round one was added as a safety mechanism in the 1970's or whatever to ensure plugs couldn't be installed backwards, and I think they are often wired to a more stable ground point in homes etc. too.

I have not had stewardship of a vintage 1950's Strat, but all the ones I've seen have at least a small triangle of shielding taped to the pickguard at the controls. Also I have seen full metal cutouts that go directly under the pickguard so they become like one piece, which may be how they did it before adhesive shielding was available. Some Strats are wired with a ground wire going to the switch lower down on the body of it---theres a hole for that on some switches. Gibsons definitely have a ground...or "signal out". I forget this stuff since I don't exercise the information, but I was thinking everything in the circuit needs to be grounded basically....and it might even be DANGEROUS to not have something grounded if their is any real voltage coming thru; isn't that how a few folks died onstage...ungrounded mic's?

I wouldn't worry about bringing all the grounds to 1 common neat point, that can be maddening if not thought out from the beginning esp. for someone unfamiliar with soldering etc. It all comes together at the output jack to the amp in the end anyway.

But I would shield it, it is just so easy with copper tape or paints etc. available today. I got a crapload for cheap through ebay; you can probably find it at a retail shop too if your in a hurry. It can make a real difference when playing in places that have interference that is there but not horrible (where nothing but hummers help), plus it makes the whole wiring easier. It looks like you have spent some time and energy on this project and to cut corners on that seems a shame to me. You will need to make sure the shielding attaches to the final output jack ground eventually, whether that happens in a roundabout way like a screw from a pickgaurd or a pot screwthread, or a wire soldered to the foil doesn't matter as much.

[tnt1234]

I used to shield all my guitars, but stopped on anything with hum buckers just because I wasn't personally noticing any advantage in them. Any hum that I would notice in a guitar would always quickly be sonically downed by our drummer! So it seemed kind of pointless to me...but I sure wish I did it on this one...might circle back and do it yet. We'll see....

[TI4-1009]

I think we all know this, but shielding and grounding are two different things used for two different purposes. I copied this good explanation from a different discussion board:

"When you SHIELD you are doing just what the term implies. You surround the electronic parts with some kind of conductive material in an effort to block stray radiation from affecting them. Agreed, the shielding does have to also be grounded to be effective.

GROUNDING involves attaching components or parts of components to a common electrical conductor, which is often ultimately attached to an actual earth ground. However, a GROUND doesn't have to be attached to an earth ground. The term just refers to the common conductor in an electrical circuit where the ground side connections are made. In an auto the chassis/body is usually the GROUND part of the circuit, even though it's not attached to an actual earth ground.

The GROUND circuit in a guitar usually just consists of several wires that are attached to a common point, (usually the back of a pot), and then all of this connects through the jack to the outside (shield) conductor in the cable, which connects to the GROUND side of the amp, which hopefully connects through a three prong plug to a GROUND wire in your house wiring, which connects to an actual earth GROUND.

edit: Shielding and grounding are not the same thing, but they are usually tied together in a circuit, which makes it confusing. They also often often serve the same purpose, e.g. in a guitar help to prevent hum, noise, etc., which adds to the confusion. When you SHIELD you're physically covering or surrounding components with some kind of conductive material. When you GROUND you're connecting a component to the ground side of the circuit."

[tatittle]

I used to shield all my guitars, but stopped on anything with hum buckers just because I wasn't personally noticing any advantage in them. Any hum that I would notice in a guitar would always quickly be sonically downed by our drummer! So it seemed kind of pointless to me...but I sure wish I did it on this one...might circle back and do it yet. We'll see....

I assumed you were going to split the coils like Jerry did with the Super 2's. If so you will encounter all the issues with noisy true single coils. If not, no need.

[milobender]

I assumed you were going to split the coils like Jerry did with the Super 2's. If not, no need.

This is 'unsound' advice, and definitely untrue. That may be the case for shielding or not shielding the pickup cavity, as long as your pup leads are shielded... but not the case for your electronics compartment. The unshielded wiring in the cavity will definitely pick up electromagnetic radiation, like an antenna, depending on how strong it is. There really is no excuse for not shielding the component cavity. At some point you are going to be in a situation where you will wish you had.

[tnt1234]

Yeah, makes sense....

Current from of mind is;

- try to easily get rid of switch buzz
- install nut, do fret work, string it up....
- Test
- Then remove wires, shield, add bus wire, re-wire.

Because it occurs to me that at this point, all I know is, there is signal coming out of the pups to the outputs and it appears to be routing correctly relative to the OBEL. I don't know if the coils are correctly aligned, or if I have phase problems, or really even if the OBEL system is behaving correctly (though I suspect I would have NO signal if not since I set it up with cable sand wheel box)... so maybe I should go ahead and get to a place where I can know those answers so as to limit my do-overs to two.

[tatittle]

Since I don't do wiring everyday, I find it easiest to draw up a layout/diagram before starting more complicated wiring like this. I make it ridiculously accurate with colored pencils etc. It just seems like getting it right the 1st time is far easier than trying to figure out what is wrong later on. Wald's diagram is a great help, although I still think the switch/pup joints are backwards so that the spade in position 1 activates the neck pup and position 5 the bridge etc., it will work/sound good if done like he stipulated regardless though.

I believe the pup's should be mounted with the branding on the bottom facing the same direction, both either up or down; one way will give top coil split and the other bottom coil splits.

I haven't seen your pics but the body of the switch is accessible will be a point you could run a ground to I think. Or maybe you can follow one of the spades to the shaft if it body isn't metal (like you can with a 1/4 jack)? Maybe 1 of those 2 sticking out of either side of the rotary? I am not familiar with rotaries sorry.

Not sure why you would hear noise in OBEL. Cant really say it works until you send noise through it though. Are you returning the signal back to the guitar for your test by bypassing the box or plugging a patch cable from the effects send back to the return?